Does a BAJA mold make a good CHECKMATE

[checkmate fan]

There are rumors out that BAJADOUG is trying to buy some of the molds from Reggie Fountain. Would a Baja Outlaw mold make a good checkmate? And while we are at it, why is his site name BAJADOUG when he owns Checkmate?

Enquiring minds want to know.


Let's hear it, true checkamte fans.

 

[Craig]

I hope that is NOT true. I really, really dislike the outlaws especially the 25OL. They are heavy, slow, slugs. They truly SUCK as a performance boat, they stick to the water. The 25OL weighs in at around 4800lbs, that's 800lbs more then a 259/279 Convincor. It would be a bad idea, the 25OL just isn't a good speed boat....You got to throw more than 500hp in them and you'll still have a hard time reaching 70mph.

Someone please tell me there won't soon be outlaws out there with checkmate stickers on the side. I would not be able to deal with that. Please, I need to here that this is only a nasty rumor! Not sure what they'll gain as far as customers by doing this, maybe some, but they'll lose me and I'm sure alot of other current customers just for the principle of the matter.

-Craig

 

[onthehammer]

If it is for the larger hulls and a new Checkmate deck was molded for it, I think it would be ok. We need to get into the large boats to get some customers back on board. Remember the boat would be built to Checkmate standards and not Baja standards. Old hull and new deck would be ok. If it still looked like a Baja all around, NO!

 

[Craig]

Ah, all I know is the OL hulls SUCK. They are everywhere around here, been in lots of them. Slow….25’, 26’, 33’, 36’ whatever size. Will they be better if Checkmate takes them and lightens them up? Don’t know. I would bet not, they are totally different then a Checkmate hull, wide at the bottom and heavy at all the wrong spots.

Why not design their own “big” hull? Take what they got (25’-33’ ZT’s/Convincors) and stretch em if they want bigger. I’m no hull design expert, all I know is the 25’-33’ Checkmates have always spanked the 25’-33’ Bajas with same power….easily, forever, as long as I can remember. If this is truly in the works, somebody please explain to me. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, man.

-Craig

 

[teamhart2]

Im not sure craig, but Ive always heard the weight difference is one of the biggest contributors to the speed differences you see between the checkmates and bajas, which mostly comes from construction methods I think.

Also, BajaDoug probably comes from the fact that he also started baja if my mind serves me right, some expert here will be able to confirm or deny that.

if its true who knows, maybe they just want to make sure no one else buys the molds and starts up another competitor or something. Or maybe they wanna use em to help design something new and use that as a basis..... or maybe they want an example at the factory of what not to build haha

 

[Craig]

Im not sure craig, but Ive always heard the weight difference is one of the biggest contributors to the speed differences you see between the checkmates and bajas, which mostly comes from construction methods I think.

Also, BajaDoug probably comes from the fact that he also started baja if my mind serves me right, some expert here will be able to confirm or deny that.

if its true who knows, maybe they just want to make sure no one else buys the molds and starts up another competitor or something. Or maybe they wanna use em to help design something new and use that as a basis..... or maybe they want an example at the factory of what not to build haha

Re: Weight - When you look at them side by side, more going on there than just weight difference.

Re: Bajadoug handle - I don't get that either.

Re: Buying the molds to reduce competition....I thought of that too. That would make sense.

-Craig

 

[Big Red]

If it is for the larger hulls and a new Checkmate deck was molded for it, I think it would be ok. We need to get into the large boats to get some customers back on board. Remember the boat would be built to Checkmate standards and not Baja standards. Old hull and new deck would be ok. If it still looked like a Baja all around, NO!

I don't think Checkmate needs to go any bigger in size. I think they need to say in the lake not the ocean. Just think about it, if you had the cash to buy a 36 footer would it say Checkmate or Baja. $ell no it would say Apache, Outerlimits, Skater or even Cig. Not Checkmate or Baja Hammer Slammer. Maybe "BajaDoug" aka Doug Smith is going to buy all the old Baja molds and have a big bon-fire at the Checkmate poker run. I will donate the 5 gallons of gas and 1 new zippo to get it started.

This is the way I feel I hate a Baja and would go boats-less if thats all I had.

 

[Chris]

I would love to have an Apache!

http://www.apacheboatco.com

 

[cooperider]

I would love to have an Apache!

http://www.apacheboatco.com

An Apache like that?

Because thats what I see on that link.

 

[Chris]

Yeah, that's the one!

Apache!

I want the fully loaded one with only Michelins on it!

Think about it Coop - you and I could go into the salvage business!

I could live out my dream of following in the footsteps of Nick Adonidas!

(That's probably a joke that only my fellow crazy Kanooks will get.)

 

[cooperider]

Yeah, that's the one!

Apache!

I want the fully loaded one with only Michelins on it!

Think about it Coop - you and I could go into the salvage business!

I could live out my dream of following in the footsteps of Nick Adonidas!

(That's probably a joke that only my fellow crazy Kanooks will get.)

I'm in, IF we can name it Salvage One, like in that old Andy Griffith TV show, where he built a rocket in his junk yard.

 

[Craig]

I don't think Checkmate needs to go any bigger in size. I think they need to say in the lake not the ocean. Just think about it, if you had the cash to buy a 36 footer would it say Checkmate or Baja. $ell no it would say Apache, Outerlimits, Skater or even Cig. Not Checkmate or Baja Hammer Slammer. Maybe "BajaDoug" aka Doug Smith is going to buy all the old Baja molds and have a big bon-fire at the Checkmate poker run. I will donate the 5 gallons of gas and 1 new zippo to get it started.

This is the way I feel I hate a Baja and would go boats-less if thats all I had.

Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it). I believe that Checkmate makes one of the best v-hull boats on the market. I'm not saying they are better than the boats you mentioned, but Checkmate construction holds it's own in comparison.....Thing is, you are right though, most of the rich guys with the gold chains, are going to buy the boats you listed, whether Checkmate is comparable or not, just so they can be in style and conform with the expectations of the wealthy class of boaters. But, yeah, Checkmate should stay with the outboard and small I/O's up thru the 27-28'ers, every once and a while build a 30...there isn't room for Checkmate on the list of boats you mentioned.

-Craig

 

[BAJADOUG]

OK GUYS THE BAJADOUG NAME HAS BEEN WITH ME FOREVER, SO COME UP WITH A NEW HANDLE AND I'LL MAKE THE CHANGE.
THERE IS NO TRUTH ABOUT BAJA MOLDS, WE HAVE NONE OF THE MOLDS AND FROM MY UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE LAND FILL.
I HAVE SPOKE WITH REGGIE ABOUT BUILDING SOME OF THE SMALLER BOATS FOR HIM AND THEY WOULD BE THEIR BOATS.

SO THERE IT IS FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

THE PLANT WILL BE HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE AUG. 1ST ANF ALL ARE INVITED, FOLLOWED BY A POKER RUN ON SAT.

 

[Old Navy]

"CHECKMATEDOUG"

 

[Craig]

Building some boats for them…now that is awesome!

Well, no truth to the rumor, that’s good….we needed something to ramble about though, was getting kind of boring around here.

-Craig

 

[Craig]

I want to just say that some of the comments I made in this thread, were made without thinking about Doug Smith as the former pres of Baja. I did not intend to throw any insults at Doug or his former boat company, especially if he had any hand in the outlaw design. They are a nice enough boat and many of them have been sold over the years….I just don’t think the outlaw series run as well as the same size Checkmates. I have always thought of Baja as decent, solid boat. I am just a Checkmate guy at heart.

I have a lot of respect for what Doug Smith has done during his career in the boating industry and hope to see more good things now that he runs Checkmate. I am a recent customer and he has done a good job taking care of me.

-Craig

 

[Chris]

OK GUYS THE BAJADOUG NAME HAS BEEN WITH ME FOREVER, SO COME UP WITH A NEW HANDLE AND I'LL MAKE THE CHANGE.
THERE IS NO TRUTH ABOUT BAJA MOLDS, WE HAVE NONE OF THE MOLDS AND FROM MY UNDERSTANDING THEY HAVE BEEN SENT TO THE LAND FILL.
I HAVE SPOKE WITH REGGIE ABOUT BUILDING SOME OF THE SMALLER BOATS FOR HIM AND THEY WOULD BE THEIR BOATS.

SO THERE IT IS FROM THE HORSES MOUTH.

THE PLANT WILL BE HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE AUG. 1ST ANF ALL ARE INVITED, FOLLOWED BY A POKER RUN ON SAT.

How about just using your real name? I think that would be best as that allows infrequent visitors to the site to identify you and know that you're the real deal.

As I have previously mentioned to you, I/we would like to work with you and the management group more co-operatively, as I believe that only stands to benefit all the stakeholders of the site. Those being, Checkmate Inc. and it's dealers, our membership and vendors, and the site and myself.

Or we can continue down the current road which I would currently characterize as "you do your thing and we'll do ours".

Sincerely,


-Chris

 

[Big Red]

Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it).

I would not buy one I would want to buy a boat that has been hammered on time and time again in the ocean. That way I know it will hold up. If Checkmate decides to build a big poker run style it will have to be tried for years in the rough seas to get profected. I would not want to be the test clown for a 36 + footer. Plus for the resale reasons not many people want a odd ball boat. Think a bit harder how many 30 foot Convincors are out their in demand not many. Thats because you open the doors to a larger boat market in that price range. Just look a the price they slapped on their latest project with the twin outboards.

 

[hotdaddy27]

Nice to hear an answer to some rumors from the horses mouth...

You wouldn't believe the questions I have been asked about Checkmate since aquiring my new one...I think people just make stuff up to sound cool!

As for Baja's...my Dad would puke if he heard me say this, but I have always had a soft spot for them.

Needless to say, my Checkmate will "out-look" any Baja I have ever seen and I will "hammer down" on any one I ever do SEE"

Its kinda like football...I love the G-MEN, but I respect the competition that the Patriots provide. But in a heated debate, the gloves come off.

 

[Craig]

Well Big Red, I think I know what you're saying.......but if I, personally had the money and was in the market for a 36'+ boat, I sure would buy a Checkmate, considering it's still made with the traditional Checkmate quality construction (and doesn't have a baja bottom on it).

I would not buy one I would want to buy a boat that has been hammered on time and time again in the ocean. That way I know it will hold up. If Checkmate decides to build a big poker run style it will have to be tried for years in the rough seas to get profected. I would not want to be the test clown for a 36 + footer. Plus for the resale reasons not many people want a odd ball boat. Think a bit harder how many 30 foot Convincors are out their in demand not many. Thats because you open the doors to a larger boat market in that price range. Just look a the price they slapped on their latest project with the twin outboards.

Well, all I can tell you is that years and years of "hammering down" has gone into the design of the current big Checkmates. Been around longer than most, in big water, and in the race circuit where the proved they will hold up.

I agree with your resale statement, and the fact that they would have a hard time fitting in to the list of manufacturers you listed. And yes the demand is low for the bigger Checkmates becuase there are so many others out there with a reputation for bigger boats, and the fact that 30' is actually small nowdays.

-Craig