sbc marine oil pan

[curves]

I was going to buy this chrome oil pan,just wondering the difference in the marine.and what side dip stick and all that.i dont want to get wrong pan.and i see baffled also.

 

[curves]

will regular one work?

 

[corey331]

A marine pan usually holds a lot more oil than a standard pan. This is because a marine motor can pump a normal automotive pan dry on long full throttle runs. A pump can always pump out oil faster than it can drain back. That's why you need the extra amount of oil in a marine pan.

 

[jumbofordman]

A marine pan usually holds a lot more oil than a standard pan. This is because a marine motor can pump a normal automotive pan dry on long full throttle runs. A pump can always pump out oil faster than it can drain back. That's why you need the extra amount of oil in a marine pan.

If a pump could pump out a pan faster than the oil could drain back, then it really wouldn't matter how much the pan held, eventually the pan would be empty.

I'm guessing the true reason marine pans are larger is the extra oil provides more time in the pan to cool off since marine engines get less airflow over them than cars do.

 

[curves]

I went to go get the stuff and guy never messaged,so who knows,so guess i need atleast a 7qt.i even seen 9qt. I'm starting to like the look of aluminum anyways,than chrome,chrome just too shinny.I like chrome and aluminum mixed.Thank guys,i just didn't know if something in pAN WOULD BE DIFFERENT.IKEEP SEEING BAffled pans,still don't know what thats for.

 

[corey331]

If a pump could pump out a pan faster than the oil could drain back, then it really wouldn't matter how much the pan held, eventually the pan would be empty.

I'm guessing the true reason marine pans are larger is the extra oil provides more time in the pan to cool off since marine engines get less airflow over them than cars do.

Actually no. If a motor can internally hold 5-6 quarts of oil, and you are running a 10 quart pan, there will always be oil in the pan. So, if you run a 5-6 quart automotive oil pan, and are (this is key if you actually read my first post) MAKING LONG FULL THROTTLE RUNS then yes, the oil pump will in fact pump oil out of the pan faster than it drains back in, which could cause the pump to not see oil. This is why I just had to have a custom 12 quart oil pan made for my new motor, cause LS motors are particularly bad about this. Now, you are correct in the fact that a nice side effect of all that oil is cooling, but even on my big pan, I'm going to have to run a couple of extra coolers.

 

[RNGRDVE]

Curves I'm not trying to be a Richard but quit looking at car parts for your boat. You keep asking if different auto parts are ok for marine use and the answer on every part is no. Strictly shop for marine parts and you will have the peace of mind to know you are buying parts that are ok for marine use.

 

[curves]

you can pay the triple price for the marine sticker,while i can use that extra money for the oddities.there is no need for over 7qt pan even at 5,500rpms for 30mins.I was just wondering the differences of the inside of pan,special welds ect.ill just figure it out when i take a pan off and see.I always put like 5 1/2 in a auto so another qt and half should be plenty.

 

[mishawakajim]

Curves I'm not trying to be a Richard but quit looking at car parts for your boat. You keep asking if different auto parts are ok for marine use and the answer on every part is no. Strictly shop for marine parts and you will have the peace of mind to know you are buying parts that are ok for marine use.

Very nicely put Dave.

 

[jumbofordman]

Actually no. If a motor can internally hold 5-6 quarts of oil, and you are running a 10 quart pan, there will always be oil in the pan. So, if you run a 5-6 quart automotive oil pan, and are (this is key if you actually read my first post) MAKING LONG FULL THROTTLE RUNS then yes, the oil pump will in fact pump oil out of the pan faster than it drains back in, which could cause the pump to not see oil. This is why I just had to have a custom 12 quart oil pan made for my new motor, cause LS motors are particularly bad about this. Now, you are correct in the fact that a nice side effect of all that oil is cooling, but even on my big pan, I'm going to have to run a couple of extra coolers.

I understood the long full throttle portion of your post. However, your comment about needing extra oil cooler capacity would indicate to me a poorly designed oil system for marine use. If the oil can't drain back from the engine fast enough, then it's being held in the block an extra long period of time, which causes rising oil temperature and pressure. Sounds like the oil pressure relief valve doesn't allow enough flow.

To comment on the OP's question, I think a chrome pan would be a bad choice for marine use, as chrome tends to rust, and I'm sure would look terrible after a season or two sitting in a boat. Plus chrome doesn't allow as much heat to escape from the pan. Black is the idea color for an oil pan. Baffles at the bottom of the pan are designed to keep oil from sloshing around and help keep the oil pump pickup submerged in oil at all times.

A further commentary on your oil pressure problem. The more I think about it, the more I realize you can't have the oil pump pumping too much oil in the engine. First off, there is a finite capacity to the oil galleries, and because they are under pressure whenever the engine is running, they are always full of the same amount of oil. Secondly, there is a oil pressure relief valve on the engine. This is designed to bypass pressurized oil from the pump back to the inlet of the pump. So essentially, the oil pump is designed to provide excess flow to high RPM's and the pressure relief valve make sure to keep the right amount of pressure (and therefore amount of oil) on the bearings. If you just kept pumping more and more oil into the engine, the pressure would keep rising and rising, and eventually your oil filter would burst. I also just checked the oil flow rate for a LS engine oil pump, and it's in the range of 12 gallons per MINUTE. If oil couldn't drain or be bypassed fast enough, the oil pan would be drained empty in less than a minute.

What you seem to be saying to me is when you go on long full throttle runs, you eventually lose oil pressure. That's not because you are 'emptying the pan' it's due to some other problem, and having a larger pan is somehow a bandaid for the problem. My initial guess is you are overheating the oil and when it reaches a certain temp, it breaks down. Having more oil capacity would certainly delay the onset of this. Another potential problem would be with your oil pump pressure bypass valve. When the engine reaches a certain internal temp, the valve may start binding, and allowing too much oil to bypass the pump. A quick google check of LS engine oil pumps does seem to indicate a problem with the pressure relief valves.

I also just read a interesting article on LS engine oil problems for racing scenarios, http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/ls-engine-oil-control-an-in-depth-look-at-best-practices/ and it does seem that windage may be a problem. This occurs because the crank whips the oil into a froth, and suspends a large portion of the engine oil into a mist. This could also be your problem. Three solutions to this would be either having a deep sump pan with a longer oil pickup tube. This would drop the engine oil level down and prevent the crank from hitting the oil. Second you could go to a external tank wet sump, or even a dry sump system.

 

[jjg]

you can pay the triple price for the marine sticker,while i can use that extra money for the oddities.

Very true, however a marine enviroment is many times more severe than a everyday automotive enviroment, and you generally only have to buy it once so why cheap out ?. Marine parts generally are 300 series stainless or anaodized alum. for a reason. the dielectric reaction between the disimilar metals causes corosion. Its more than just a "cool factor" as to why marine parts cost more. Anything that can happen in a marine application usually does, why chance it ? Use the best and you wont have to second guess !!

 

[curves]

Very true, however a marine enviroment is many times more severe than a everyday automotive enviroment, and you generally only have to buy it once so why cheap out ?. Marine parts generally are 300 series stainless or anaodized alum. for a reason. the dielectric reaction between the disimilar metals causes corosion. Its more than just a "cool factor" as to why marine parts cost more. Anything that can happen in a marine application usually does, why chance it ? Use the best and you wont have to second guess !!

I just always hear you got to use that old oil pan, so was wondering why thats all.and maybe any other mods to do to pans before putting on, like screens ect.maybe theres a book out there.I guess marine motors may be a slight high in front so maybe its to keep all that oil off crank in the rear.should be a way to weld a box or something on inside, they do it on circle track pans.I like to know what I, m looking for just incase deal comes up.justvsaying buy oem everytime isnt the answer.The marine guys started with oem auto parts and said lets make these marine.some stuff may start with standard core, some may have to be made fresh from scratch.

 

[corey331]

A further commentary on your oil pressure problem. The more I think about it, the more I realize you can't have the oil pump pumping too much oil in the engine. First off, there is a finite capacity to the oil galleries, and because they are under pressure whenever the engine is running, they are always full of the same amount of oil. Secondly, there is a oil pressure relief valve on the engine. This is designed to bypass pressurized oil from the pump back to the inlet of the pump. So essentially, the oil pump is designed to provide excess flow to high RPM's and the pressure relief valve make sure to keep the right amount of pressure (and therefore amount of oil) on the bearings. If you just kept pumping more and more oil into the engine, the pressure would keep rising and rising, and eventually your oil filter would burst. I also just checked the oil flow rate for a LS engine oil pump, and it's in the range of 12 gallons per MINUTE. If oil couldn't drain or be bypassed fast enough, the oil pan would be drained empty in less than a minute.

What you seem to be saying to me is when you go on long full throttle runs, you eventually lose oil pressure. That's not because you are 'emptying the pan' it's due to some other problem, and having a larger pan is somehow a bandaid for the problem. My initial guess is you are overheating the oil and when it reaches a certain temp, it breaks down. Having more oil capacity would certainly delay the onset of this. Another potential problem would be with your oil pump pressure bypass valve. When the engine reaches a certain internal temp, the valve may start binding, and allowing too much oil to bypass the pump. A quick google check of LS engine oil pumps does seem to indicate a problem with the pressure relief valves.

I also just read a interesting article on LS engine oil problems for racing scenarios, http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories/ls-engine-oil-control-an-in-depth-look-at-best-practices/ and it does seem that windage may be a problem. This occurs because the crank whips the oil into a froth, and suspends a large portion of the engine oil into a mist. This could also be your problem. Three solutions to this would be either having a deep sump pan with a longer oil pickup tube. This would drop the engine oil level down and prevent the crank from hitting the oil. Second you could go to a external tank wet sump, or even a dry sump system.

Thats exactly what I did when I designed the new oil pan. It's more than twice the oil capacity than the stock pan and is 3 times deeper. The pick up is then much deeper into this pan to get the fresh oil. also had it set up with fittings to make the oil filter a remote mount so I can run the bigger BBC oil filter. I'm also going to run an oil cooler in line there. I am finding that the oiling is the weak link with the LS motors, but its nothing that can't be overcome!!!

 

[curves]

I'm curiuos about this oil cooler.i see powersteering coolers,but never oil coolers,wonder if you got to winterize them also.wonder if that guy is using the 5w30w instead of using 25w40w.

 

[Mr. Buss]

Wow.. the first thread I've read on this board in about a year, I just remembered why, some things never change...I guess I'll go start scrapping my non marine engine components.

 

[RNGRDVE]

Nothing like staring in the middle of the book.

It's been a while seen we've seen you. How've you been Buss?

 

[curves]

some people point in book say thats what i want.some people make due with whats availible in decent price range,and ends up being better than whats in the book.maybe a engineer can explain it.Only difference i've found yet is,marine pan has dipstick where you can pump the oil out instead of draining.

 

[Gimme Fuel]

I use plenty of non marine parts on my engine build. But there are certain things where auto parts wont work. Sure a plain jane oil pan could work, is it the best? No. Marine engines are subject to oil sloshing and much more windage so pans are baffled and usually involve windage trays to control oil and oil temps from crank slapping.

In reality, Merc's black motors, especially small blocks, are nothing special at all. Very very mild components and low hp. There are a few unique-to-marine components that are necessary but majority are run of the mill production parts. I could tell you exact differences on big blocks, but im not much of a small block guy. I believe that merc small blocks dont even have oil coolers.

But if you are talking about building a performance marine motor that is above and beyond what merc used, you jump into a whole new category of requirements and things that need to be addressed. Sure your uncle's cousins' twice removed brother dropped a car motor in a boat and it ran for 10,000 hours with two oil changes only. It happens. But, it is a motor that was lucky to have all the stars align and not blow up. Any number of things could grenade or go wrong and ruin it. Pure luck that it lives. Why make an investment in a motor without knowing that it will live and always respond when you mash the throttle? As with anything in life garbage in=garbage out.

 

[dream4ta]

My $0.02... Stop buying parts... You are looking at building a motor to put in front of a drive that will not allow much if any gains. Save your $20 here and $100 there that you are going to be spending on parts and use it to buy a transplant. That old omc drive does not have the hydrodynamics to gain much speed or the prop options to gain much speed. Im not a betting man but i would be willing to place some money on the table that if someone were to built 2 identical motors and put them in 2 identical boats and put your drive behind one and a stock alpha behind the other the alpha could be setup to run 5 plus mph faster easily.. And then the alpha has options to make it faster yet! if its a cheap boat you want get it running and enjoy it. If its a cheap fast fun boat you want be smart about the money part of it. When you start playing with boats cheap fast and reliable will almost never be used together...

Rant over! Let the hating begin!

 

[PA-Checkmate]

My $0.02... Stop buying parts... You are looking at building a motor to put in front of a drive that will not allow much if any gains. Save your $20 here and $100 there that you are going to be spending on parts and use it to buy a transplant. That old omc drive does not have the hydrodynamics to gain much speed or the prop options to gain much speed. Im not a betting man but i would be willing to place some money on the table that if someone were to built 2 identical motors and put them in 2 identical boats and put your drive behind one and a stock alpha behind the other the alpha could be setup to run 5 plus mph faster easily.. And then the alpha has options to make it faster yet! if its a cheap boat you want get it running and enjoy it. If its a cheap fast fun boat you want be smart about the money part of it. When you start playing with boats cheap fast and reliable will almost never be used together...

Rant over! Let the hating begin!

I agree 110%, Wanna go faster, then sell the current boat and purchase one that falls into your performance goals!