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25'cat
- Thread starter QST4IT
- Start date
ZT260...who's CAT is that you have photos of??? 
Anyone know how many Checkmate fiberglass cats were actually produced???
Any idea where the molds are??? :eyes:
Checkmate needs to re-pop those hulls!!!
They would grab a big market share away from those high dollar west coast builders!!!
I know they'd be a hot seller in twin OB power and single I/O?
Come on Checkmate...Get with the program!
I'll take one, ZT260 wants one...anyone else???
Jim.
Anyone know how many Checkmate fiberglass cats were actually produced???
Any idea where the molds are??? :eyes:
Checkmate needs to re-pop those hulls!!!
They would grab a big market share away from those high dollar west coast builders!!!
I know they'd be a hot seller in twin OB power and single I/O?
Come on Checkmate...Get with the program!
I'll take one, ZT260 wants one...anyone else???
Jim.
Dave's ZT260
Member
Here is the thread I found the pictures on. (you will need to register to see them, but they are the same pictures)
http://www.fastboats.info/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13811&highlight=checkmate
It seems like only 4 or so were ever made.
Here it is for sale, click on checkmate under boat index on this page.
http://www.newyorkboats4sale.com/
I think Kip should give this some thought. Even if they have to design and build a new mold.
A checkmate Cat could be a home run for the company.
http://www.fastboats.info/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13811&highlight=checkmate
It seems like only 4 or so were ever made.
Here it is for sale, click on checkmate under boat index on this page.
http://www.newyorkboats4sale.com/
I think Kip should give this some thought. Even if they have to design and build a new mold.
A checkmate Cat could be a home run for the company.
Ok guys here's the skinny directly from George Linder Himself on the cat.
"The deal with Checkmate ended when they refused to pay me as required by our contract. The matter went to arbitration and Checkmate lost and had to pay me the money due. Checkmate decided not to produce the boats and was ordered by the court to distroy the molds - don't know if they actually did this but they did not produce any more boats other than the first few."
So Now you have this side of the story, which is the one I can say I firmly believe. We've worked with Mr. Linder on Many Many projects. He couldn't be more of a pleasure to work with, and has proved his Vast knowledge & expierence to us many times over.
Best Regards To ALL
Ken Adams Jr.
Quest Marine Inc.
"The deal with Checkmate ended when they refused to pay me as required by our contract. The matter went to arbitration and Checkmate lost and had to pay me the money due. Checkmate decided not to produce the boats and was ordered by the court to distroy the molds - don't know if they actually did this but they did not produce any more boats other than the first few."
So Now you have this side of the story, which is the one I can say I firmly believe. We've worked with Mr. Linder on Many Many projects. He couldn't be more of a pleasure to work with, and has proved his Vast knowledge & expierence to us many times over.
Best Regards To ALL
Ken Adams Jr.
Quest Marine Inc.
Kip Combs
Active member
Hea theirs no reason to really go on and on about this but......that's not the story as i heard it. There was some issues in the design and building of the plug in regards to how finished it was / or wasn't in this case. The boat didn't perform up to snuff and we couldn't sell them sold 5 or 6 i think and just decided to take it out of our line we messed around with an I/O configuration for about a summer and just said the hell with it! This is why we design all our stuff in house now to stay away from issues like that.....and just to kill this thread we are not interested in putting a cat back in our line at all.The market is flooded with cats now and the people designing/building them have much more experience than us.....we'll stick to what we know..... V bottoms!
Well said Kip, I agree there are way to many big cat builders. Its funny as there are only a few small tunnel builders.
How about a 19-20' go fast tunnel.
I have a motor and would spend the summer testing for you guys. I would even pop for gas.
How about a 19-20' go fast tunnel.
I have a motor and would spend the summer testing for you guys. I would even pop for gas.
Kip,
If your refering to me as going on and on about this subject I have only done what I said I would do in my first post which was first tell the side I heard , and posted pics of the plug as was built by us. Secondly I stated I would back that info up by writing an e-mail to G.L. who was involved in the contract aspect of the sale of the design, and the plug.(we were not involved in the sale, only a contracted second party to do the actual build as per instructed) When I recieved a reply from G.L. I Promptly posted it here Like I said I would. I was asked to post this info by members of this board and have now done so. I did not come here to bash checkmate or be bashed myself. However your reply seems a little touchy which is unfortunete. I tend to think your last sentence Pretty much sums up the problem then and now.
"and just to kill this thread we are not interested in putting a cat back in our line at all.The market is flooded with cats now and the people designing/building them have much more experience than us.....we'll stick to what we know..... V bottoms!"
Cats are a totally different breed of boat which require expierenced\willing people to set them up initally to attain their full capabilities. It is unfortunete this was how it all played out. However my opinion is that the plug & design were both very much adequate for their purpose.
Sorry so long
Chris your website is great & a great service to its members. Thanks for letting me post. I wish you the best of luck with it in the future.
Best Regards
Ken Adams Jr.
If your refering to me as going on and on about this subject I have only done what I said I would do in my first post which was first tell the side I heard , and posted pics of the plug as was built by us. Secondly I stated I would back that info up by writing an e-mail to G.L. who was involved in the contract aspect of the sale of the design, and the plug.(we were not involved in the sale, only a contracted second party to do the actual build as per instructed) When I recieved a reply from G.L. I Promptly posted it here Like I said I would. I was asked to post this info by members of this board and have now done so. I did not come here to bash checkmate or be bashed myself. However your reply seems a little touchy which is unfortunete. I tend to think your last sentence Pretty much sums up the problem then and now.
"and just to kill this thread we are not interested in putting a cat back in our line at all.The market is flooded with cats now and the people designing/building them have much more experience than us.....we'll stick to what we know..... V bottoms!"
Cats are a totally different breed of boat which require expierenced\willing people to set them up initally to attain their full capabilities. It is unfortunete this was how it all played out. However my opinion is that the plug & design were both very much adequate for their purpose.
Sorry so long
Chris your website is great & a great service to its members. Thanks for letting me post. I wish you the best of luck with it in the future.
Best Regards
Ken Adams Jr.
Dave's ZT260
Member
I spoke to Harold Kunkel about the cat. He said he tested this boat for checkmate back in the 80's and found it to be very unstable. ie. Bad design.
Without taking sides, I'm sure if the hull worked well checkmate or someone would have continued building it. As it stands only a few were built, and no one seems to be able to answer why without any motive.
That being said I wish checkmate would revisit the single I/O and dual O/B CAT design. There are very few good hulls available at this time, and most are not backed by reputable companies. Reputation makes all the difference to me and many other potential buyers.
Even Harold Kunkel thinks a checkmate CAT would be great.
Just my 2 cents!!!
Without taking sides, I'm sure if the hull worked well checkmate or someone would have continued building it. As it stands only a few were built, and no one seems to be able to answer why without any motive.
That being said I wish checkmate would revisit the single I/O and dual O/B CAT design. There are very few good hulls available at this time, and most are not backed by reputable companies. Reputation makes all the difference to me and many other potential buyers.
Even Harold Kunkel thinks a checkmate CAT would be great.
Just my 2 cents!!!
Ken...Thanks for your input on the CAT! I sure don't think it was a hull design issue why the boat was killed... I would give several educated guess's: business deal gone wrong?, the economy & year it was produced?, BIA issues (speed & safety)?, insurance issues?, Checkmate venturing into unknown waters (not a "V" bottom)?, and the fact that this was probably an 80+MPH boat with box-stock V6 outboards set off the liability red-flags with Checkmate???
I wanted one of these when I first saw it in the brochure... the Dealer said it was "unavailable" over and over, so I went out and bought an Eliminator 23 Daytona cat...it ran 108MPH with 650+HP and a Speedmaster-3. I really wanted that checkmate, but I went elsewhere and I'm sure many others as well.
It's interesting to see thing stir up in these boring winter months!!! Anyway, many thanks! Jim.
I wanted one of these when I first saw it in the brochure... the Dealer said it was "unavailable" over and over, so I went out and bought an Eliminator 23 Daytona cat...it ran 108MPH with 650+HP and a Speedmaster-3. I really wanted that checkmate, but I went elsewhere and I'm sure many others as well.
It's interesting to see thing stir up in these boring winter months!!! Anyway, many thanks! Jim.
Ok everyone, let's try not to get too excited and ruin the thread.
We all know, there are two sides to every story and this one just may have three or four.
Ken, thanks for dropping by and telling us all about the Persauder Cat and sharing your pics. I know you were asked to come by and share your knowledge of this particular boat by one of the members, so I very much appreciate the fact that you took the time to do so. Believe me, it was very much appreciated and the last thing I like to see is anyone upset on the board, I hope you'll stick around.
Here is my .02 cents if anyone cares.
This topic I've seen discussed various times before. Here and elsewhere, and I've heard various versions of what supposedly happened told. And in the end, the bottom line seems to be that Checkmate made a BUSINESS DECISION and not to continue building these boats.
We all know, there are two sides to every story and this one just may have three or four.
Ken, thanks for dropping by and telling us all about the Persauder Cat and sharing your pics. I know you were asked to come by and share your knowledge of this particular boat by one of the members, so I very much appreciate the fact that you took the time to do so. Believe me, it was very much appreciated and the last thing I like to see is anyone upset on the board, I hope you'll stick around.
Here is my .02 cents if anyone cares.
This topic I've seen discussed various times before. Here and elsewhere, and I've heard various versions of what supposedly happened told. And in the end, the bottom line seems to be that Checkmate made a BUSINESS DECISION and not to continue building these boats.
Hey Kip... Checkmate is missing a market on these things!!! Just take a look at the view numbers with interest in the "CAT"...(260 and counting as of this post). Those west coast builders are mega overpriced...a normal working man can't touch a Skater, and there are a lot of high doller one-off companies selling go-fast cats. I would trust a Checkmate product well above the one-offs.
I like to see boats like ZT's getting built, there fast and fun, but fast V's are dangerous as hell if you don't know how to drive them! If you've ever ridden in a fast (100+) CAT, you'd never want to bother with any "V" hull going over 80! Case in point...After trying like hell to get a Checkmate cat and my local dealer with constant no, no, no answers...I ended up getting an Eliminator 23 Daytona Cat. It was the fastest and safest boat I have ever owned!!! At 70+, it starts packing air under, and feels like someone let off the brakes as it instantly pops the needle to 80+. In 2' waves and 80MPH, the boat was as stable as a drive down the X-way in a convertible! There was no chine walk, no porpus, very little positive trim needed, and loved to scream at that 100+ mark with ease and still have that rock-solid feeling. Last time I checked, Checkmate is a PERFORMANCE BOAT company...
I would love to see Checkmate venture into the cat market again...Newer technology, better and more efficent motors, the sky's the limit!!! With Checkmate's quality and value in what you get for the money, you guy's would probably corner half the cat market...the midwest and eastern states for sure!!! Look back into it...I will gladly start a poll of interested "CAT" buyers if you'd like proof.
Keep up the great work on what your doing, but you missing a calling, and let the CAT out of the bag!!! Jim.
I like to see boats like ZT's getting built, there fast and fun, but fast V's are dangerous as hell if you don't know how to drive them! If you've ever ridden in a fast (100+) CAT, you'd never want to bother with any "V" hull going over 80! Case in point...After trying like hell to get a Checkmate cat and my local dealer with constant no, no, no answers...I ended up getting an Eliminator 23 Daytona Cat. It was the fastest and safest boat I have ever owned!!! At 70+, it starts packing air under, and feels like someone let off the brakes as it instantly pops the needle to 80+. In 2' waves and 80MPH, the boat was as stable as a drive down the X-way in a convertible! There was no chine walk, no porpus, very little positive trim needed, and loved to scream at that 100+ mark with ease and still have that rock-solid feeling. Last time I checked, Checkmate is a PERFORMANCE BOAT company...
I would love to see Checkmate venture into the cat market again...Newer technology, better and more efficent motors, the sky's the limit!!! With Checkmate's quality and value in what you get for the money, you guy's would probably corner half the cat market...the midwest and eastern states for sure!!! Look back into it...I will gladly start a poll of interested "CAT" buyers if you'd like proof.
Keep up the great work on what your doing, but you missing a calling, and let the CAT out of the bag!!! Jim.
Well anyways it's all water under the bridge. I'm sure the decisions made were for the good of the company at the time which would be all anyone would expect.
I would like to take a moment to post a link to some Pics of other cats & Opc Race boats weve built. Most but not all of the big cats were designed by G.L. Some of the big cats were designed by us, and all of the small race tunnels were by us.
Raceboat pics
Race boat Pics
Ken Adams Jr.
I would like to take a moment to post a link to some Pics of other cats & Opc Race boats weve built. Most but not all of the big cats were designed by G.L. Some of the big cats were designed by us, and all of the small race tunnels were by us.
Raceboat pics
Race boat Pics
Ken Adams Jr.
Great pictures Ken, thanks for sharing.
Kip,
Thanks for the reply, and clearing that up. I appoligize for countering harshly.
I can belive there may have been a miss understanding on both ends. Its entirely possible the folks at mate thought the part would be polished,and ready to mold. And that George & the sales guys had it in mind that it would be a build job & the folks at Mate would do the finish work. Our norm is only to seal the part, or sometimes to put a duratek finish & then sand out to 180grt. Other-wise in shipping a well finished shiny part usually gets dinged & scratched, and needs re-work. Like I said the whole situation stunk. These are the situations that hurt Industry relations and stoped what potentially was an awesome boat. I don't know who the Setup\test teams were but my first thought is that they may not have been very experenced with setup on cats they are totally differnt. Engine height & centers,props, C\G weight displacement. Anyhow we have had race teams buy Identical boats One team will win the championship with 138 mph record speed the other swears he cant get over 85mph. So Anyhow thats how it all goes sometimes.
Regards
Ken Jr.
Thanks for the reply, and clearing that up. I appoligize for countering harshly.
I can belive there may have been a miss understanding on both ends. Its entirely possible the folks at mate thought the part would be polished,and ready to mold. And that George & the sales guys had it in mind that it would be a build job & the folks at Mate would do the finish work. Our norm is only to seal the part, or sometimes to put a duratek finish & then sand out to 180grt. Other-wise in shipping a well finished shiny part usually gets dinged & scratched, and needs re-work. Like I said the whole situation stunk. These are the situations that hurt Industry relations and stoped what potentially was an awesome boat. I don't know who the Setup\test teams were but my first thought is that they may not have been very experenced with setup on cats they are totally differnt. Engine height & centers,props, C\G weight displacement. Anyhow we have had race teams buy Identical boats One team will win the championship with 138 mph record speed the other swears he cant get over 85mph. So Anyhow thats how it all goes sometimes.
Regards
Ken Jr.