96 pulse 18.5 w/ 99 merc 175 efi

[WIcheckmate]

hi i just sold my gp1300r yamy waverunner and traded it in and bought a used checkmate... needless to say i LOVE it and had it out today for the first time... my main goal is top speed numbers... i believe today i hit 59 on the gps.. with a 27 pitch stainless prop that the dealer just threw on where i got it from... i don't believe its really the correct prop the boat performs ok but i'm looking at generally top speed.....any prop suggestions???

 

[JW]

We'll need to know a whole lotta things, like that motor what hull etc............

 

[CMK]

congrats on the boat. find a shop that will let you try several props. where abouts in WI? i'm in western racine co.

 

[WIcheckmate]

boat

its an 18.5 foot 1996 pulsar hull... with a 1999 mercury 175 efi. um oh its a closed deck also if that makes a difference. i'm from appleton, wi- as a reply to the guy who is from racine.

 

[JW]

Ahhh, so you have the Pulse 186 then with the 2.5 liter efi 175. That's good info. If you're looking for top speed, then your first order of business is pulling the engine off and installing a larger one (which will bust your USCG rating). That's a real heavy boat for the 2.5 liter 175 unfortunately.

You can improve what you've got by installing about 12-14" of setback jack plate, a set of water intake scoops, and a water pressure gauge and jacking the engine up as high as it'll go. Then start playing with some Tempest Plus and Trophy Plus props. You might be able to get a true 70 mph out of it GPS.

 

[WIcheckmate]

thats good info thank you.... i guess i will try to find a jackplate and prop cause right now its only gpsing right around 59-60 mph. until i can afford a different motor for it that will be the way i will have to go .

 

[xsive]

Ahhh, so you have the Pulse 186 then with the 2.5 liter efi 175. That's good info. If you're looking for top speed, then your first order of business is pulling the engine off and installing a larger one (which will bust your USCG rating). That's a real heavy boat for the 2.5 liter 175 unfortunately.

You can improve what you've got by installing about 12-14" of setback jack plate, a set of water intake scoops, and a water pressure gauge and jacking the engine up as high as it'll go. Then start playing with some Tempest Plus and Trophy Plus props. You might be able to get a true 70 mph out of it GPS.

Interesting.... JW you've set up many 185's I see

And how are you helping here xsive? JW

 

[WIcheckmate]

are those props surficing props? since the engine will be that high?? i assume since you were quick to say that that boat is "under powered" with a 175 on it that is really common to have a 200 or 225 put on it? if i were to do that i would want to be able to have a 175 hp cowling to put on it to keep me away from the water police

 

[Boston Predictor]

Captain Morgan

This guy's checkmate's got a 2.4l under a 75hp 4 stroke cowling

 

[zstevens]

jw u seem to have the ans 4 the pulse . i put on 6" jp on my pulse 185o/b w 175 merc carb . ur reply go back more !,lol, im lookin 4 all around so im runnin a 20p 4bld alm n i have a 21p laser ll , my ques w 6" setback whats lowest the prop shaft should be ? or how high ? which prop to try for best of both trophy plus or tempest plus seems both are well liked in reading the threads ? thanks zach

 

[JW]

Zach, you'll have to play with props and setback and height to find the sweet spot for any boat. You can buy 3 brand new Tempest props, and all three will run differently. No two hulls or props run the same. Constant trial and error until you get to where it's 'good enough'

 

[JW]

are those props surficing props? since the engine will be that high?? i assume since you were quick to say that that boat is "under powered" with a 175 on it that is really common to have a 200 or 225 put on it? if i were to do that i would want to be able to have a 175 hp cowling to put on it to keep me away from the water police

The Tempest and Trophy plus props can be surfaced, but aren't considered true 'surfacing' props like a Chopper or Cleaver. Checkmates are usually too heavy to run the true surfacing props and have acceptable hole-shot.

I have owned and setup both the Pulse 171 and the Pulsare 2100. They are the two lightest hulls per horsepower rating in the lineup. All of the Pulse boats have the same bottom, just different lengths. The 2100 bottom is unique. You can use any typical setup tricks for any 171/170 185/186 210/211. Ignore Xsive post, he seems to be confused. All outboard Checkmates setup follow all the same 'rules of thumb'

The problem with the 185/186 is they are just as heavy as a 2100, with the disadvantage of being saddled with a 175 USCG rating. Most people do not install a larger outboard, because of possible liability issues. I just said that because you said you wanted to maximize top speed, and that's the easiest way. I'd do it, and worry about an accident every time I took it out.

To maximize your setup, the well known setup trick for most outboard Checkmates is setback setback setback. I didn't see any gain from installing a 6" setback on my Pulse 171/XR6 150. I did see some gains when I pulled the 5.5" setback from the Pulsare and went to 10". Even the 10" setback was not enough for my Pulsare with the 2.5 225 Promax. The 2.5 motors are light, and the well known rule of thumb for the bigger/newer (since mid 80's) outboard Checkmate hulls is to run about 14" of setback. That's if your transom can handle the load that is.

 

[xsive]

The Tempest and Trophy plus props can be surfaced, but aren't considered true 'surfacing' props like a Chopper or Cleaver. Checkmates are usually too heavy to run the true surfacing props and have acceptable hole-shot.

I have owned and setup both the Pulse 171 and the Pulsare 2100. They are the two lightest hulls per horsepower rating in the lineup. All of the Pulse boats have the same bottom, just different lengths. The 2100 bottom is unique. You can use any typical setup tricks for any 171/170 185/186 210/211. Ignore Xsive post, he seems to be confused. All outboard Checkmates setup follow all the same 'rules of thumb'

The problem with the 185/186 is they are just as heavy as a 2100, with the disadvantage of being saddled with a 175 USCG rating. Most people do not install a larger outboard, because of possible liability issues. I just said that because you said you wanted to maximize top speed, and that's the easiest way. I'd do it, and worry about an accident every time I took it out.

To maximize your setup, the well known setup trick for most outboard Checkmates is setback setback setback. I didn't see any gain from installing a 6" setback on my Pulse 171/XR6 150. I did see some gains when I pulled the 5.5" setback from the Pulsare and went to 10". Even the 10" setback was not enough for my Pulsare with the 2.5 225 Promax. The 2.5 motors are light, and the well known rule of thumb for the bigger/newer (since mid 80's) outboard Checkmate hulls is to run about 14" of setback. That's if your transom can handle the load that is.

Yes, just ignore me...I'm confused.

I'm learning so much from all the internet wizards out there. I think I will just lurk and learn.

 

[Chris]

xsive,

I'm lost brother. Did I missing something?

All I see is a post by you disagreeing with JW.

What is your suggestion(s) here if they're different from JW's?

Have you made some, or does your opinion differ from JW's?

If so, post up your thoughts. That's why we have a message board.

From what I'm reading JW is more or less posting the general consensus that is out there on the 185 and on most Checks.

Personally I like the 185, but it's not the fastest Check in the fleet. To be honest, I don't think 25 HP compensates for the difference in weight between the 170 and the 185 to compare those two models.

Actually, the 170 is probably the faster of the two models if you abide by the coast guard specs and set each boat up to harness it's true potential.

But if you have facts to state otherwise, let's hear 'em.

 

[xsive]

xsive,

I'm lost brother. Did I missing something?

All I see is a post by you disagreeing with JW.

What is your suggestion(s) here if they're different from JW's?

Have you made some, or does your opinion differ from JW's?

If so, post up your thoughts. That's why we have a message board.

From what I'm reading JW is more or less posting the general consensus that is out there on the 185 and on most Checks.

Personally I like the 185, but it's not the fastest Check in the fleet. To be honest, I don't think 25 HP compensates for the difference in weight between the 170 and the 185 to compare those two models.

Actually, the 170 is probably the faster of the two models if you abide by the coast guard specs and set each boat up to harness it's true potential.

But if you have facts to state otherwise, let's hear 'em.

As you asked, you shall receive....

Flame away..


JW's original comments...
Ahhh, so you have the Pulse 186 then with the 2.5 liter efi 175. That's good info. If you're looking for top speed, then your first order of business is pulling the engine off and installing a larger one (which will bust your USCG rating). That's a real heavy boat for the 2.5 liter 175 unfortunately.

You can improve what you've got by installing about 12-14" of setback jack plate, a set of water intake scoops, and a water pressure gauge and jacking the engine up as high as it'll go. Then start playing with some Tempest Plus and Trophy Plus props. You might be able to get a true 70 mph out of it GPS.

I will begin,

First off. “You can improve what you've got by installing about 12-14" of setback jack plate”. This is wayyyyy to much for a 19’ boat. (Unless you like hauling a couple of whales up front) 8-10” max on that one. 12 -14” the weight distribution becomes weird and the boat acts funny. You get an ungodly amount of bow rise and it just doesn’t work. 6” isn’t that bad either. It’s is certainly better than on the transom..

Secondly. “a set of water intake scoops, and a water pressure gauge and jacking the engine up as high as it'll go.” The water pressure gauge.. Good comment. Scoops, can be a good idea, but if you boat in weedy water a really bad idea they plug up you need to qualify the answer. If you need to you can block the top 2 or 3 holes with allen head screws and put a dab of loctite on them. “Jack the motor as high as you can go.” BBBBAAADDDD advice. Great way to have a POS running rig, or a blown motor.

Proper direction - Give a starting height (say, propshaft centerline 3-1/2" below the pad) have a good GPS and tach and adjust enige height in 1/4" increments and write the results of each setting in a scribbler. Note holeshot, (time to plane), comment on bow rise, acceleration, engine height, how much trim you had to run, top speed etc. Your fastest height likely isn’t the highest setting on your jackplate and different props like different things. Saying jack it all the way up is stupid. No discredit to the fellow who posted the original question, but what would he do if it runs $hitty or blows up. Depending on which jackplate he buys, you can have a variety of highest engine heights. 10” CMC and 10” Rapid Jack are at least 4” different.

Chris why don’t you try this advice on your 170 Pulse and let us know how it works. Try it, go put 14” (Get a Rapid Jack Magnum) of set back on that boat, jack it all the way up, bolt some prop on (Tempest Plus or Trophy Plus) and you tell me what the likelihood is that that will be the best that boat can run….ZERO! The last thing I want to do is tell someone to do something and they spend a bunch of money and time doing it and either see no gain, or a decrease in performance.

And as far as recommending the guy change the motor, well.... When he said top speed I would assume that he wants his rig to run the fastest that it can in the current configuration. This boat should run a no BS 65 MPH+ with a 175 anything extra is a bonus.

There are a few states where they will send you home for exceding the rating, and good luck with your insurance agent. If you are going to overpower your boat, check with local enforcement agencies and your insurance company to see if it’s a go, sometimes yes and sometimes no. It would be too bad to have an accident and find out you broke to law and are being charged and have no insurance. FUN. FUN. I could assume that the fellow who asked the question is fairly new to boating and may not be aware of the potential downside.

It will be faster with a bigger motor, but I still don’t understand why people think all these boats should go 80 MPH. Buy a different boat if you want to go faster then that. To me what you get with a Checkmate is a quality built boat using tried and true construction methods and materials. You get gelcoat work that is among the industries best. I have never seen a Checkmate where you can see print bleed through from the mat. You get a wonderful performing hull that is faster, HP for HP, than 90% of the other boats in its class. It is a great family/watersports boat that is likely the class of most lakes. It is a very solid boat that handles moderately rough waters well. In my opinion want to go 80MPH plus, and that is what is important to you, there are a lot of other boats out there that will do it with ease. Triad, STV, Allison, Full Throttle, Hydrostream etc.

Answers always need to be qualified.

 

[zstevens]

jw n xcesive i see both points n 4 me i want all around but i should of snagged the man j/p in bolted to hyd.j/p they have a ton of adj. room options so next step igues 4 me is props sampling ! so thanks again for ALL advice ! lol oh yeah i forgot key word budget ?!

 

[DJP]

zstevens,

I have the same boat but it is a 1995. I bought the boat with a 23P High 5 blade on it. That prop worked great for years for skiing and such. I would get about 59 MPH out of that. I had a spare aluminum 3 blade 19p. This over revved obviously but would shoot the boat out of the water. Last year I bought a 23P Tempest Plus. I am really happy with it. All around great prop. I am 200lbs. and I can get up slaloming pretty easy. I also barefoot with it too. Speed increased up to 64-65 mph GPS. Handling is awesome. I do not have a jackplate but I try to get as much info as I can to see if it would be worth it. What hole is your motor mounted at right now? I think mine is low and would like to see where other similar boats are set at. Hopefully this helps and will save you some money and time on props. I have tried the Laser 2 also and I did not like it at all. Good Luck!

 

[hotbeek]

Hello,

There's a number of Wisconsinites here on the board. I live in Wrightstown.(20-25 mins away) I know of a few other board members in Appleton. I'm sure one of us might have something prop wise to try. You could also try Fox River Propeller(920-788-9830). They're located in Little Chute off 96. They've always been good to deal with. He'll let you try some props. Another place that may have some props to try is Green Bay Propeller(920-662-7605). If you'd like something a little more high performance DAH Propeller(262-534-4440) is located in Burlington, WI.

http://www.dahpropellers.com/

I was just down there this last week. They are very good people and do some very high end race stuff and your every day joe stuff. They were willing to lend two props to an individual ,here on the board, just to try.

Good Luck with your setup,

Don't be afraid to email or personal message us. I know we TRY to get together periodically out on Winnebago or the Wolf River.

 

[merc245]

I thought there was a time, not so long ago it was important to prop a motor into its powerband.Not to high is as important as not to low.



POWERBAND! Boy thats a word I haven't used since the old dirt bike days; say about 25-30 years ago.

 

[Chris]

xsive,

Nobody is going to flame away. That's not what this site is about. So let's just move on from that if we can.

As for your suggestions, if that's your advice on the ultimate set up, than that's what I would have suggested you posted in the first place.

I think discrediting another members opinion without posting yours isn't particularly helpful.

As a point of reference, JW's old 170 ran pretty close to 70 with a XR6 as I recall. So he must know a thing or two about setting up a Check or two.

To me, the original post asked how to make a 185 go faster. To quote the original poster.....

"my main goal is top speed numbers"

Well to me, that fastest and easiest way to get more MPH is install more power. Legalities aside wouldn't you agree?

And as JW pointed out, the Pulse 185 weighs almost as much as a 2100. So JW's suggestion as the way to get a big gain in top speed was to add more power. And I agree with him. JW also qualified the increased power suggestion by saying that installing a bigger motor will break the coast guard rating. So fair enough I would say, the warning was there.

Baring that, I think the suggestion JW was making was that you have to add set back to get bow lift. I would agree with that suggestion as well. Now we can debate here all day along on the amount of setback, but I would say there is no doubt setback on Checkies frees them up. Is 12" too much? Maybe yes, maybe no. But setback is going to be needed to make a 185 faster. I think most would agree there.

JW's other suggestion was to get a jack, and jack up the motor. He also qualified the suggestion by saying to install a water pressure guage. I think his suggestion to jack the motor up as far as you can go, means to jack it up as far as you need to go. Obviously, there comes a point where jacking the motor higher has a negative effect on performance. Well, that's as high as you can go!

At the end of the day there are a million ways to set up a boat. And they're all a bit different and achieve slightly different results.

But I agree with JW's general direction was the right one IF as the original post said, your goal is "top speed numbers".

That being....

-More Power equals more speed
-Setback equals more bow lift and less drag
-Jack the motor up equals less drag as well as some other things
-Turn as big a wheel as you can

Take a look at illMattic's set up. He's used that philosophy and he's running pretty quick I would say.