Could it be that finally.....

[JW]

Interesting comments about the closed bow verus open bow markets. Here in the states, open bow boat sell 10 to one over closed bow........

 

[Dave Y.]

Chris E that's interesting about if the boat was sold to someone else that the dealer is still responsible! The 1850 is going with a 175 Opti and c-hawk trailer for $33,500.00-$35,000. (just guessing, but close). Tho we have been getting alot request's for the bowrider's! So I hope I can move them and we were talking today, that we are going to order a couple of closed decks. So who do you work for Chris E?

 

[SCT]

Dave,

I really liked my 97' long deck Pulsare, but I think it would have been alot easier to resell if it was an open bow version. Nowdays, I think people like the extra space of a bowrider. Maybe Kip, can give you a percentage on closed vs bowrider for certian models.

Good luck on your dealership.

 

[Dave Y.]

I like your boat SCT! Yes the rep and Kip both said that the open bow's are selling more, and before I sold Bigmoss's boat to him, the phone calls were "is it a bowrider?" So I feel good what we are getting in!

 

[Bigmoss]

Originally posted by Chris E:
In a nutshell, when a boat is rated at "x" horsepower and you go over it, then you are opening yourself up to a world of liablity (in Canada anyway). The marina may protect itself from the original purchaser if anything happens (called an "overpowered boat agreement") BUT, if the original purchaser sells that boat to someone else and that person kills someone then the original selling dealer can be held liable for selling that overpowered boat to start with (the agreement as i understand it only covers the orignal owner and not future owners) Not only that, but the tech who installed that engine can also be held liable.

This spring our sales dept. sold an engine to customer that was rated over the max hp of the boat and every tech here refused to install it. Ended up losing the deal but we all sleep at night.

My 2 cents - rig those boats with the max they will take according to the capacity plate. Chris is right over a certain length (around the 20-21ft mark) you can put whatever power you want on a boat.

Have a look at the "XS" engines from merc - they might match up nice with one of those hulls. We sold a bunch of allisons with 200XS optis and they worked very well.

Out of curiosity, what will the boats be selling for in cdn funds - especially the 1850?

Chris can I ask where you got the information stated above ? I only ask for the following reason, when I first bought my Mate with the 200 Opti most of the small brokers or companies only really did small or boat that would do 50mph and less. I then found a few companies that specialized the the so called "Speedsters"

I was able to get insurance no problem, at a higher cost of course, I was also allowed the option of buying 2 and 3 million in Liability instead of the regular 1 million. I phoned the Canadian Coast Guard as well as the people involved in registering vessels here in Canada, as well as the Provincial Police who happen to be 2 friends that work there as well.

All told me as long as I had a valid and proper policy in hand that all was covered with no problems. They even mentioned of course that it was a smart idea to make sure you had the extra Liability funds. I cannot see how if the boat was insured and the Province ( Talking in Canada ) chooses to register the boat how anyone including the dealer could ever be held liable ? I also asked my attorney to check prior to the sale and they found no issue either.

On another note, I was stopped last weekend by the provincial police on the lake I boat on for the regular spot check, they check everything from top to bottom, including length of boat, size of motor etc to put in their computer. Would it not make sense that once this info made the system that it would ( or should I say I hope it would ) tell them hey this lenght and horsepower do not add up and contact me with a warning ?

I boat on 3 different LARGE lakes here in Canada and I do not think one boat out of say 80 or so I boat with are under or at the max of HP for the rate sticker. All are over the mark by a bit.


BM

 

[Chris E]

Hey Bigmoss:

Let me start by saying that i am nooooo lawyer. Anyway, this is information provided to me by my former employer. Keep in mind i am looking at this from the marina owners viewpoint and not the consumer. Basically it works like this: Tort law has an area called negligence (which we all know about). If i as a marina owner, install a 250hp engine on a boat rated for 150hp i am being negligent in my behavior, because i, as an expert no full well that the engine is more than what the boat is designed for. So, if the person that i sold the boat to hurts themself or someone else, and i being an expert was aware of the possiblity of this happening due to the power of the engine, then, i am being negligent in my actions and am therefore liable to some extent for the accident. This liablilty in the Judge's eye could be enough to close my business. The boat company won't be liable because they have installed the horsepower plate on the boat.

A marina in my area did close it's doors because of an accident similar to the above scenario.

An overpowered boat agreement can help reduce that liablity. But, this agreement doesn't cover future owners (how could it?) Now, if a future owner had an accident - it could be traced back to the original dealer due to negligence and because there is no contract between the two parties it would open up a whole new can of worms.

An insurance company from what i've seen is only interested in how fast a boat goes and not so much the power (i don't no why). They get cranky if a boat goes over 50mph.

If you have a chance, check out an allison's capacity plate. They recommend all their boats be powered with 70-90 hp engines. When was the last time you saw an allison with a 70 on it? The only reason they put that rating on their boats is for liablity.

As far as the OPP go, I don't think there is any law that says you have to stay within the recommended horsepower - just look at the auto industry - you can jam a 350 into a chevette as long as it's street legal.

We store 350 boats on site here and we have only three that are overpowered. Most responsible dealers don't want the head aches.

Now for the checkmates - they can take the power - that's not the problem - in fact when i worked for Prides we had to install longer engine bolts cuz the transoms were too thick. Compare that with the grew boats we sell where i work now that need 6 washers to keep the nut from bottoming out on the thread - nice.

Really, it has nothing to do with the boat but the people who operate them the unfortunate reality is that people in this day and age will not take resonsibilty for their own actions which is why the legal system is so busy.

Note that the people you talked to all encouraged you to get the higher laibilty amounts - there is a reason for that.

Anyway, this is what i have learned over the years and all the employers i have worked for have been of the same mind - if the plate says 150hp it gets 150hp end of story. If the customer doesn't like it, they are sent elsewhere - from a business owners stand point the profit isn't worth the liability.

 

[Chris E]

Originally posted by Dave Y.:
Chris E that's interesting about if the boat was sold to someone else that the dealer is still responsible! The 1850 is going with a 175 Opti and c-hawk trailer for $33,500.00-$35,000. (just guessing, but close). Tho we have been getting alot request's for the bowrider's! So I hope I can move them and we were talking today, that we are going to order a couple of closed decks. So who do you work for Chris E?

Hey Dave:

I work for Proline Rentals in Port Carling, we sell grew, doral and princecraft and merc engines. I worked at Prides for a co-op when i was in college which is when i first got to play with checkys. We sold a lot of boats that summer (1989).

Anyway, currently working towards getting my CGA (certified general accountants) designation - in my free time. When that's done I'm going to need a reward and figured a checkmate would be a good one.

I have a customer of mine who is in the market for a Pulse 185BR with a 150 on it (used probably)- so if you have something keep me in mind. His boathouse just burned to the water on Tuesday (struck by lightening) - he lost everything in it so he may be in the market sooner than he thought. Anyway, let me know if something comes along.

Thanks Chris

 

[Chris]

Hey Chris,

I have an older Grew 140 SS with a 1987, 60 Merc on it. I have a new trailer. I keep thinking about replacing the boat as it's an early 1970's model and has seen better days.

Do you have any idea what it would cost to get a 14' or 15' boat only with a canvas top? I would put on my Merc and use my trailer. I'm looking for something inexpensive, as we only use this boat during bad weather,rain etc and when it gets cold.

 

[F150GT]

I would have to agree, if I were a marina owner I would only sell the boat with max power or with no power, let the customer rig it. I dont know if that would skirt the legal issue, but if the guy cant rig his own boat he probably dosent belong behind the wheel of a high performance boat.

 

[Bigmoss]

Originally posted by F150GT:
I would have to agree, if I were a marina owner I would only sell the boat with max power or with no power, let the customer rig it. I dont know if that would skirt the legal issue, but if the guy cant rig his own boat he probably dosent belong behind the wheel of a high performance boat.

F150 not to diss you but I would have to say you are 110% dead wrong with that statement, I know lost of race car drives that could not touch an engine but can drive like hell, I also know lots of boaters that know the basics, maybe not how to rig their boat but can drive like hell also. Me included

BM

 

[tsunami]

Hi I'm new to the board. My name is Scott and I work with Dave Y at Lake and Trail, formerly Rick's Marine of Perth, Ontario.

I must say there is an incredible wealth of knowledge on this site. Awesome reading, awesome discussions and even more awesome photos of incredible Checkmate machines.

I just wanted to let you know that Lake and Trail is receiving 5, yes 5 new machines at the end of July. You can read about how we've configured them on our www.lakeandtrail.ca website under the "Exciting times ahead!" photo.

I'm very excited about being able to offer these machines and even more excited to be involved with them and look forward to discovering the mystique and romance with them.

I look forward to many hours visiting and learning on this site. Kudos to Chris and company for putting it together and keeping this resource and comfort zone running.

 

[F150GT]

I new that statemant would fire up some people, I dont mean to insult you at all. I also now some people that dont have a clue on how it works but can drive like hell. What does get me going is when inexpierienced people can go out and plunk down a bunch of cash and have the fastest boat on the lake at there controll. This was the subject of a recent article in Power Boat Mag, If marinas or people dont do something the govermant may do something extreme to cut back the problems.
How many stories can we all tell of some high school kid getting a muscle car of some sort and rapping it around a tree. The marinas have to cover there ass for good reason, everybody is sue happy evan if it is there own stupidity that got them into trouble. Heck the guy that planted his fountan in the forest is probably trying to sue sombody for teaching how to drive(I dont know what actualy caused him getting thrown out, but it fits the example)
No affence inteded towrd expierienced performance people, more a precaution to people that want to go fast but are new to the sport.

F150GT

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by tsunami:
Hi I'm new to the board. My name is Scott and I work with Dave Y at Lake and Trail, formerly Rick's Marine of Perth, Ontario.

I must say there is an incredible wealth of knowledge on this site. Awesome reading, awesome discussions and even more awesome photos of incredible Checkmate machines.

I just wanted to let you know that Lake and Trail is receiving 5, yes 5 new machines at the end of July. You can read about how we've configured them on our http://www.lakeandtrail.ca website under the "Exciting times ahead!" photo.

I'm very excited about being able to offer these machines and even more excited to be involved with them and look forward to discovering the mystique and romance with them.

I look forward to many hours visiting and learning on this site. Kudos to Chris and company for putting it together and keeping this resource and comfort zone running.

Thanks for the kind words Scott. All the best to you and the gang at Lake & Trail. It's great to have you guys on the board and as an Ontario dealer.

 

[tsunami]

Alright, I know what you're going to say - "Exercise some self control". Well we're beyond that at this point We've added a 300 Convincor to our recent boat order, bringing the total to 6 boats arriving before the end of July.

I gotta tell ya, the people at Checkmate are so friendly and helpful. You can tell they know all about customer service!

Dave Y and I'll be paying a visit to the factory in August. I'm really looking forward to that.

 

[Chris]

Originally posted by tsunami:
Alright, I know what you're going to say - "Exercise some self control". Well we're beyond that at this point We've added a 300 Convincor to our recent boat order, bringing the total to 6 boats arriving before the end of July.

I gotta tell ya, the people at Checkmate are so friendly and helpful. You can tell they know all about customer service!

Dave Y and I'll be paying a visit to the factory in August. I'm really looking forward to that.

Take some pics man!

 

[cooperider]

Come during the Bratwurst Festival make a 3 day party out of it.

 

[tsunami]

Originally posted by cooperider:
Come during the Bratwurst Festival make a 3 day party out of it.

Boy, I love Bratwurst. Wish I could attend the festival but we're down on some other business a few days after the Bratwurst festival has ended. Maybe next year.

 

[tsunami]

You bet I'll be taking pics Chris, as soon as the truck arrives. I'm sure half of the pictures will be of my smiling ear to ear! I probably won't sleep for days before or years after they arrive

 

[Chris]

Take some of your tour too.

 

[Dave Y.]

I'm still haveing a hard time sleeping even harder with this 300 Conv. comeing!
Hey Chris ckeck out the trader this weekend to see our add in it! We'll have get a pic of the 1850 for ya because it is comeing in red metallic flake!