Got a chance to run alone and my numbers are...

[Mooneys]

Now that I have 12.5" of set back I managed to get out on the river by myself for a few runs to see where I am with my current setup.

1986 21' Checkmate Starliner
1987 Johnson 175 (Crossflow) with a bunch of work done to it for more HP
22p Raker prop
10" CMC Hydraulic Jackplate and 2.5' CMC spacer:

The best I got was:

at 6000 RPMs - 58.8 MPH on my Garmin GPS. I was running the propshaft about 2" below the "V" bottom and just a little up trim (the trim got me from 5600rpms to 6000rpms & from 53.8 to 58.8)

Am I at a point where it doesn't get any better until I get a bigger motor or are there still somethings I can do to bump the speed up a little more?

 

[Mooneys]

Now that I have 12.5" of set back I managed to get out on the river by myself for a few runs to see where I am with my current setup.

1986 21' Checkmate Starliner
1987 Johnson 175 (Crossflow) with a bunch of work done to it for more HP
22p Raker prop
10" CMC Hydraulic Jackplate and 2.5' CMC spacer:

The best I got was:

at 6000 RPMs - 58.8 MPH on my Garmin GPS. I was running the propshaft about 2" below the "V" bottom and just a little up trim (the trim got me from 5600rpms to 6000rpms & from 53.8 to 58.8)

Am I at a point where it doesn't get any better until I get a bigger motor or are there still somethings I can do to bump the speed up a little more?

 

[illMATTic]

what about with just a little more trim? how many runs did you get in to achieve this speed?

 

[Mooneys]

I was already running at 6000rpm so I didn't want to push the OMC to much harder, I probably could have gotten a little bit more if I had more RPMs. I got 58.8 on my 4th speed run down the river.

 

[jrumon]

Mooney's...
Is it nose coned and do you have a water pressure gauge??? If so, try a higher pitch (24 raker or 25 SRX) and a bit higher motor height... remember, excessive trim kills speed! Get a good bow-lifting prop... with that much set-back, you shouldn't need much trim. I would think a solid 65+mph is easily possible.

P.S. As far as motors, I am 100% on my Merc 300PM... smooth, torque to spare, and runs like a banshee when you nail it! I just rode in a new 225 ETEC powered allison... also very cool!!!

Sounds like the gang had a great time down at the regatta... was I

about missing it for a stinking wedding!!! Don't people know that they shouldn't do things on "boating" weekeends"?

Oh well... maybe next year in this Starflight or the next Checkmate??? Jim.

P.S. did Kip bring a new 2400 Pulsare to the event????

 

[Mark]

You are in the ballpark for a 22" prop. You are at 12% slip now, so you mess with trim and engine height and you will maybe squeeze another couple of mph. If you want more top end you need more prop. I'm turning a 25" 4 blade with my 200 efi at 6000 rpm. I haven't verified the speed on gps but it rocks. Maybe borrow and try a 24" prop and with that much setback raise your motor even more and you will probably turn it. But with a 175 it may be too much with a load and your hole shot might suffer.

 

[Mooneys]

No nose cone, but I have a pressure guage on it's way. I also plan to plug the 2 top holes and drill a new hole just below the lowest hole on the lower unit. I have the motor jacked so it can't go any higher then 2" below the V as a precausion untill I get the guage. I don't want to spend a ton of money on this motor because I hope to find a PM 300 this fall. The Johnson will be my back up. 65+ would be nice but I think I may be out of HP with this 175 except for your prop sugestions.

I was using very little trim maybe about an inch up when it reached 6000rpms

How about a 4 balde like the trophy or renegade in 24/25? Too much pitch? If so how about a trophy/renegade in 22/23?

The Regatta was a great time and next year will be better. Water was rough and weather sucked and I had the wife and 2 year old onboard so not a lot of fun for them when we were running, but the non boating activities were lots of fun and the people were awesome. I even got second place in the poker run ;-) You missed a good one.

No pulsares, just 2 Convincors, but they were nice. I'm thinking my next boat may be a Convincor 270 Bow Rider, but not sure I really want a Deep V, and I love my Starliner to much to trade her in on a pulsare.

 

[Mooneys]

Thanks again Mark, I am getting the hang of this now. I am on the look out for a shop that might let me try a prop. We have a used prop shop local to me and I haven't stopped in to see if they have a try and buy program or not. Will do that tomorrow I think I may start with a 24 Trophy or Renegade if I can find one.

 

['91 Starliner]

Hey mr. Mooney.....What kind of numbers were you getting with family and gear ( how much estimated weight) I estimate about 900 lbs for two kids 3 and 1 yr wife Dad and me plus cooler and toys ect. anchors bla bla bla and I was only able to get 48.9 Gps in not so good conditions and only 2 trys just curious what you were getting if you had even tried with fam/gear in boat? I ask cause I hvae a 200 Gt on same boat and I am only running a 22 raker as well.... But maybe your reworked 175 and my unworked 200 are really putting out the same HP? I also had dad and son in bow with some other crap up front when I ran..... I probably won't get to run by myself until our vacation up in CANADA ( which we love and is the perfect place to boat) So I guess I won't be able to answer any questions till then............Sorry to blab your ear off just wanted to see what you had to offer info wise.

 

['91 Starliner]

Mr Mooney, i also wanted to ask you about the Susquehana ( I assume thats were you do some of your boating). I am looking for other places to go... Iboated the Deleware all my life. I am tired of that. Kids need place were we can get out and play in water, sand bottom or at least nicer cleaner water...thats why we go to cheasepeke most of the time but as you know the boat traffic is unbearable on the weekends. that makes it very tough to run around and have fun. So any lakes that you visit or other rivers ie susquehana ect that you like let me know of where to put in what to go see conditions ( like how crowded, lots of rocks to watch out for, sand beaches you can pull up to) Any thing you can think of would be greatly appreciated cause I 'm tired of being beat up and boating on crowded waterways. We can get out on a weekday, but I don't want ot take a day off to go somewhere weve never been if I don't know were the launch is ect. Any info would be great many thanks in advance

Paul (wish I had a Lake house) For obvious reasons

 

[Mooneys]

You and I are in the same boat, both boat and performance wise it seems. I was feeling your pain with the family in the boat the first few times out. I had 5 adults and 4 kids (1, 2, 4, 6) with gear and my numbers were just like yours. I couldn't get over 5000rpms with the load on my boat and my speed was in the 43-47mph. I never got out alone with the 5.5" jackplate but I went from 5.5" to 12.5" and played hookie from work one day and got way better numbers which I believe are because of the jackplate, 58.8mph at 6000rpms. With all the people back in the boat and the new jackplate my hole shot and slow driving speed suck big time now and the motor seems to get swamped if I'm not careful. Email me your phone number or call me and we can talk and maybe even meet up to compare setups and have a little fun on the water

717-991-0648 work
717-432-2922 home

 

[Slapshot]

I am reading your numbers and equipment, and I would try either a 24 Raker or 25 Renegade. I have a Pulse 185 with a 150 OMC DFI (stock) and have similar numbers. I only have a 5.5 CMC, and can still spin close to 6000 9 I try to avoid doing it too much) with good water pressure. I want to try a Raker 24, as my boat speeds up alot with bow lift. Raker is suppose to give better bow lift (however you already have a lot of set back). Renegade suppose is to perform better overall. Just my two cents.

 

[Mooneys]

Thanks Slapshot,

I have a 25 Renegade on it's way. If it's to big it will be for sale here on the board. I'll post numbers once I get it and have time to run it on my boat. I hope it's soon because I just hit a rock with my 22 Raker

 

[Mark]

Say Mooney, what did 12.5" of setback do to your minimum planing speed? Did you try the 10" without the spacers? I'm thinking of adding 2" to my 8" plate but don't want to screw up my low speed performance just for the sake of the occasional speed run. BTW I ran 64 mph GPS the other day with my 25" Renegade, hoped it would be a bit higher. Have you tried yours yet?

 

[Mooneys]

Mark, I didn't really take notice, sorry. I'm sure it bumped it up a bit but not enough to make me take note. With a full load on the boat it is more noticable. I either run all out or real slow up to the island or dock. I went right to the 12.5 so no idea on just 10, since there were enough folks here and over at S&F telling me that I should just do the 12.5 I didn't want to mess around with remounting. I want to move the motor & jackplate up some more now that I have a pressure guage so I'll let you know how goes soon. I'll do some testing this coming weekend and let you know. I haven't gotten my 25 Renegade yet, but it should arrive before this weekend

 

[Mooneys]

Got a chance to run the 25 Renegade on my modified Johnson 175 (aprox 200HP). I was able to get pretty close to 6000RPM on the gauge, definately 5900. On GPS I saw 54.3 so about 4.5 mph slower then my 22 Raker. I'm not sure if that's how it should have performed compared to the Raker, but I was glad to be able to spin it up to 6000. I saw a little better steering performance with the Renegade, but at 6000 I was really struggling to make ant input. I think a higher pitched Raker may be my next test prop if I can find one cheap. I don't really want to mess with an over the hub prop, never rally have time to run that kind fo prop with everone wanting to ride along all the time. The 25 Renegade will be a backup, especially after messing up my 22 Raker on a rock the last time in the river

I did notice the 25 Renegade doesn't slip all the way into the lower housing, there's about an inch of space between the prop and lower housing. My 22 rake slid all the way into the housing. Is this normal since it's a smaller diameter prop and would this cause any issues since exhaust might flow through the 1 inch gap?

 

[Mark]

There is smaller thrust washer that is necessary to run a Renegade that will allow it to slide all the way in. At 6000 rpm and 54 mph you are slipping like crazy. Probably because you have too much exhaust going over the hub. Get the right washer and your revs will probably drop 400rpm. You may then be able to then raise your motor to get the revs back up and I'm sure you will see an improvement in top end over your 22" Raker.

 

[Big Dave]

I think you should try more trim!!
Trimit up and then trim up some more
Let the hull get nice and lite
Completely changes the feel of the boat
Daren34 and I were running a 1980 Diplomat with a 1993 140 looper. 6"setback cmc hydraulic
Floor it out of the hole with the motor down, start raising the plate, then trim for all it was worth. 6300 rpm w/ a raker 22 and a little chine walk to make your a$$ pucker!!!

 

[Mooneys]

This may be a stupid question Mark, but could this be for a V4 not a V6. It is about a half inch smaller in diameter (hub wise) then my raker so even if I can get it to slide in further the exhaust will still flow over the hub a good bit. The previous owner said he ran it on a Johnson 200GT, which is a V6, just fine. I wonder if he was clueless like me

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mark:
There is smaller thrust washer that is necessary to run a Renegade that will allow it to slide all the way in. At 6000 rpm and 54 mph you are slipping like crazy. Probably because you have too much exhaust going over the hub. Get the right washer and your revs will probably drop 400rpm. You may then be able to then raise your motor to get the revs back up and I'm sure you will see an improvement in top end over your 22" Raker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Mark]

Yes, the Renegade is 1/2" smaller hub. That is why it won't fit over your thrust washer. But it is made for a V6. Because it has to turn 4 blades you need the extra ventilation to spool up on hole shot. The design allows for great holeshot on a high pitch prop. On the other hand the 4 blades will still bite because there are so many of them. If you try to run it w/o the right washer you get too much venting and it doesn't run right at all. The guy who sold it to you should have told you about the washer. You're not the first guy to think he bought a piece of junk. Trust me on this one, they are a great prop, they just need the right thrust washer.