serious power increase

[fiftyp]

REALLY!!! I just spent an hour reading this laughing my a$$ off.. and
nothing????

 

[happy]

How's that old saying go?? Wish in one hand and ??? in the other. See which one fills up faster. Something along those lines.

 

[yellowfiero88]

How much? sounds like a nice freshing up my big pig could use.

Give Mike a call at the shop 909-888-0055. Easier that way

 

[fiftyp]

Give Mike a call at the shop 909-888-0055. Easier that way

Will do, have bought a few things from mike for my restore so far.

 

[themudshark]

or instead of messing with it i might just part it out..

anyone want parts?

I guess he realized this thing was gonna be a big waste of time and money

 

[torch'd]

we also convinced him an outboard on the river would be a lot more fun

 

[boatman4021]

I like the idea of getting big power out of a small engine, but you have think real hard about what you are going to use the engine for. I seen an article several years ago in a HotRod mag. that really opened my eyes. And as the years have gone by, I have found it to be more than true. The article stated that you could take a 283 small block and make just as much HP as a 454. Only problem is, the more HP you make, the more rpm's you have to turn. In other words, if the 454 made, let's say 750HP@ 7000 rpm's, the 283 may have to turn 12000rpm's to make the same HP. Now you have the problem of getting up to the rpm range where the engine can make that HP. This is where high stall converter's, or standard transmission's and 5:13 gears come into play. I have no doubt that this little engine can make big HP. The problem still remains though, of getting from idle speed up to the point where this thing starts to make good power(4000-5000?). I am not trying to be a smart a$$ or a know it all, but I have played this game a few times myself with not so good results. I have friends who run ProMod and TopSportsman and who have used engines from SonnyLeonard, Shannon Jenkins, Reher&Morrison, and others. They will all tell you the same thing that has been quoted in this thread many times, "there is no replacement for displacement". This is why they build bigger motors. Chevy didn't build big blocks because they ran out of 283's, and Mother Mopar didn't make the Hemi just because the slant six looked funny. They have all been in HP wars for years and the mathmatical salution to going fast is BUILD IT BIGGER! boatman

 

[BagMan]

Spin a 2.5 Drag to 10K, back and forth and back and forth on a smaller boat and he'll soon wake up to RPM reality...and I suggest a $12,000 re-built Drag will be less than this dream project, especially when it holds a value because it can be rebuilt/doesn't blow to the point of obliteration.

 

[ross]

spin a 2.5 drag for any amount of time at 10k and expect a rebuilt.....or a bomb! let alone a jap mota pushin 4k lbs

 

[BagMan]

spin a 2.5 drag for any amount of time at 10k and expect a rebuilt.....or a bomb! let alone a jap mota pushin 4k lbs

Thanks for your insight. I was referring to a smaller river boat, like he was alluding to. (maybe STV, Allison, Stream, etc)

For RPM's, nothing will run with a Drag in the right application, if that is what is desired, and one doesn't mind 20-30hr rebuilds. That goes with the territory and what is expected...and is about 29.75 more hrs than this thing will go before completely disintigrating, even in a smaller boat.

Talk to Jay Smith to confirm what can be done with a Drag at 10K, sustainable RPM's that can be run, and how to do it with the proper maintenance and checks so rebuilds is what one deals with, not the bomb you refer to.

 

[Mr. Buss]

i know this is off topic.

does anyone know who can make me an adapter for a homelite chainsaw engine to put on my 2.4 mid and lower??

I got a chainsaw sittin here i really dont have anything to do with, so i though i would put it on the predictor, i read on the internets that the cranks in these chain saws are good to like 400 horse, so i think im gonna find some way to add like 200 pounds of boost to this this, im gonna keep an air compressor on board, to keep the turbo's (yes 2!!) spooled, it'll be gas powered so i dont have charging issues! it should be fine on pump gas cause im gonna retard the timing. also its air cooled so i dont have to worry about any cooling issues. ill just run the exhaust though the prop. I seen these guys on some lumberjack show cuttin some huge logs with hopped up chain saws and i think its probably the best way to get my boat over the 100 mph mark.

 

[happy]

i know this is off topic.

does anyone know who can make me an adapter for a homelite chainsaw engine to put on my 2.4 mid and lower??

I got a chainsaw sittin here i really dont have anything to do with, so i though i would put it on the predictor, i read on the internets that the cranks in these chain saws are good to like 400 horse, so i think im gonna find some way to add like 200 pounds of boost to this this, im gonna keep an air compressor on board, to keep the turbo's (yes 2!!) spooled, it'll be gas powered so i dont have charging issues! it should be fine on pump gas cause im gonna retard the timing. also its air cooled so i dont have to worry about any cooling issues. ill just run the exhaust though the prop. I seen these guys on some lumberjack show cuttin some huge logs with hopped up chain saws and i think its probably the best way to get my boat over the 100 mph mark.

No, but someone on this thread has "magic dust for sale", I don't have any specifics, other than he says so. That built my confidence right up until he's selling the boat for parts. The engine should be fine, 5 second plane, and his buddy seconds the motion. I also reccomend this engine as a fine alternative.
Reason 1 he said so,
has a machinist that will produce adapter plates,
can manufacture custom exhaust (that wont revert)
can produce ecm programing that will blow the race community away
and what we always wanted, an exhaust that cavitates the prop while getting on plane.

This is just the beginning of the fine resume I believe this individual should send to race authorities like Merc, stelling, ect. I'd buy this engine now if I were u.

How much for the engine you have, I'd like to put it in my sport fisherman, save alot of room@!

 

[stclairriverblaster]

ok. i really didnt wanna revert to this.. BUT. first off i say the hp numbers that stock components can handle because i have SEEN IT first hand and my buddy did it for several seasons. of road racing and drag racing

second off. headers that wont allow water reversion. its called a water jacketed header you moron. look up cmi exhaust. the exhaust is fully jacketed right until the very end. water doesnt even touch the exhaust gases.

third of all. you dont know the first thing about the ecm tuning software thats available for dsms.. maybe you should google it.. or here i will give you a link. incase thats too hard for you to handle or believe check it out. do some reading.
http://www.ecmlink.com/

the exhaust gas idea has been used on catamarans with turbines (that make no torque down low) and has had great results. once up on plane the exhaust is out of the water the reason why i wanted to do it differently is that i have a bravo setup with a external exhaust. i dont have exhaust bellows hooked up to the outdrive. and it was more of a novelty factor.

as far as the adapter plate. i wil be sending a manual flywheel to www.jetboatperformance.com and they will machine up and fab up ANYTHING i need. and i will be cutting a bell housing off of a trans so i can make a rear motor mount.

also i didnt change my mind because i realized it would be a big waste of time or money.. i did it due to me wanting to sell it and get a smaller boat with a greater sense of speed. and something more practical to tow to the launch.

im sorry that most of you have no clue what is out there. and the potential that some of these new age motors provide.. say it with me .. i will go slow.
tech..no..logy
for christ sake. boats are so far behind cars. they only started using fuel injection recently.

anyways. i knew i was gonna be bashed for ****. but i didnt think that it would get this bad.. sorry for not being a typical fish following the school.

 

[karzrus]

First, I admire your enthusiasm, determination and dersire to do something different.
As I have aged I have gotten more careful, maybe even chicken with my time and money, and would not attempt what you were planning. From everything I know, I now also think the load factor a marine engine sees is worse then most race applications. While I think what you were planning could work, I'm very concerned about it lasting in a marine environment.

I don't like how abusive my board friends were at times with you on this. It reminded me of some of the other sites I have visited but won't post on. Although I admit to getting a chuckle or two during the reading.

I'm glad you've decided to go another way, while I think you could have proved some or most of your points, I think you would have been partially disapointed with reliability and over budget. Every project I've ever done cost more then I planned and when it comes to Boats it's even more so.

Many of the guys here were trying to give you their best advice even if some were unkind in the delivery and some could not resist poking fun at it.

Rob

 

[happy]

Moron should have been capitalized, it’s a noun! Nonetheless, I suggest you read up on engineering technology in the marine industry. You might find the guidance you received on here accurate. I do encourage your creativity and suggest further technical education in this field to develop the skills you seek.

 

[stclairriverblaster]

thank you kazrus i never thought the checkmate forum would get so abrasive. maybe everyone is crabby that its the end of the boating season.
anyways happy i dont understand how you couldnt get past the water reversion its a very simple concept.

oh btw.. kigley racing made a 4g63t outboard and it did wonderfully.

anyways. i will be parting out the boat.. and getting back to my outboard boats.

anyone interested in a really nice trailer with a nice hull that needs some upholstery work?

 

[yellowfiero88]

I got a chainsaw sittin here i really dont have anything to do with, so i though i would put it on the predictor, i read on the internets that the cranks in these chain saws are good to like 400 horse, so i think im gonna find some way to add like 200 pounds of boost to this this, im gonna keep an air compressor on board, to keep the turbo's (yes 2!!) spooled, it'll be gas powered so i dont have charging issues! it should be fine on pump gas cause im gonna retard the timing. also its air cooled so i dont have to worry about any cooling issues. ill just run the exhaust though the prop. I seen these guys on some lumberjack show cuttin some huge logs with hopped up chain saws and i think its probably the best way to get my boat over the 100 mph mark.

Come on buss, that will never work. You would have to open the hatch and push the primer bulb every time you wanted to get a cold start, duhhhh

stclair,
I think it would be very cool in a lighter hull. I also think it would be insane to do it in a playmate but then again, its me thinking out loud!!!! Yea, lots of guys are cranky about the boating being over with for the year, me included

BTW, I talked to MK today and got some info on a motor swap..... a 4.3 (with GN turbo)/alpha would be sweet in the playmate

 

[engineermike]

...i have SEEN IT first hand and my buddy did it for several seasons. of road racing and drag racing .. .

You have NOT SEEN IT in a boat!

as far as the adapter plate. i wil be sending a manual flywheel to www.jetboatperformance.com and they will machine up and fab up ANYTHING i need. and i will be cutting a bell housing off of a trans so i can make a rear motor mount. .

And how much does that cost?

im sorry that most of you have no clue what is out there. and the potential that some of these new age motors provide.. say it with me .. i will go slow.
tech..no..logy
for christ sake. boats are so far behind cars. they only started using fuel injection recently. ..

Have you seen the Mercruiser 1350? Twin turbo, intercooled, EFI, DOHC, making 1350 hp on pump gas with a warranty. (Note they increased displacement and head flow so they could run moderate boost for RELIABILITY reasons)

Anyways, I think most people are pessimistic about the idea because we've all been involved in actual projects that are only individually a small part of yours (high boost levels, engine swaps, turbo conversions, dry exhaust fab, etc) and the project always turn out more difficult, more expensive, lower performing, and less reliable than originally hoped. And you, with limited experience, are going to attack all fronts at the same time.

The more I think about it, the more laughable it becomes. "I couldn't get my carb'd 454 to run fast and I'm on a budget, so I'm converting my 25' boat over to a turbo Mitsubishi 4 banger running 40 psi boost for $2500."

 

[happy]

I am well aware of exhaust reversion, its causes and prevention. I also know the market for marine exhaust, and am extremely knowledgeable in CMI exhaust products. My experience spans 2 decades, over those years I honed my skills in just about every engine manufacture, hull manufacture there is.
Would you take some time today, research water reversion, the factors that influence this phenomenon, and state possible solutions. Something with merit and back it up with a reference that we can all verify. In fact, there is a post on this site by “vinny p” a few years back that explains reversion, in my opinion the best critique on this subject ever typed. With his permission, I framed it and hung it on the wall in my shop for customers to read. I would take the time to explain this to you yet believe if you spend your time seeking the answers would benefit you more. While your at it, research about propellers, I’m sure a lot of folks are wondering what type of prop you planned to run on a bravo drive that would perform with exhaust induced water flow around it. X dimensions, center of gravity. Once again, provide references that we can verify, like a prominent web site, boat race team, something in a boat, not a car. ect. Have you found any other similar boats that have tried any variation of a 4 banger? Any results?

 

[torch'd]

the ideas for this (in the 19' scarab jet boat we are actually doing) came partially form 3 boats. The 20b rotory ski boat (no torque what so ever), a vh45 twin turbo boat, and the 2jz boat. In addition to that the friend he speaks of with all the motor experiance has his old race engine laying around and blew up the 454 in the jetboat. I also plan on using an "exotic" or import modern engine in a boat but am thinking of like taking a tahiti outboard and converting it with an alpha drive. as far as the convincor goes im trying to get him to throw it back together with a little compression (from my calculations he was at around 7.2:1 and we all know that sucks for n/a power) and sell the boat to get into like a small bass boat with an outboard.

Disclamer: I am his friend and roomate, i know almost nothing about boats. Only watercrafts i play with extensively are my stand up jetskis. I however am an engineer and after reading many of your posts, even though some are very very harsh both as responses and from the op, i can understand both sides and really don't think a 25' boat that is that tall, deep, and heavy would be the best idea.