Very sad checkmate story

[Old Hickory]

Hey all,

Some of you know I bought a 83 Enforcer from a member here on the forum; if this dosn't prove I'm snake bit I don't know what dose.

The weekend before I was to leave for Houston to pick up the boat; the member calls me and tells me that the boat was not in the same condition as advertised. When he picked up it from where he had it stored he noticed a crack in the transom; a gash in the hull; and a nick at the water line. He said he felt bad and would reduce the price, which seemed fair. We spoke about the additional damage and he seemed to think it was still repairable. I wanted to know if the damage to the hull was all the way thru; He wasn't sure because it was under the gas tank, but he didn't think it was. I said fine I would still come down to get the boat. He also gave me the option of backing out, but I said I would still like to see the boat.

I drove from Nashville, TN. to Houston Tx. on monday. Spent the night and then went to inspect and pick up my boat. What a tragedy.

First, when I saw the boat from the road it was as I expected. looked decent but needed alot of work. I walked around to the transom and what a mess. You could see a large crack running all the way from top almost to the drain plug. The glass was completly delaminated and separated from the wood. Someone had tried to patch it using body filler. I looked inside the boat and there was water standing in the boat; the floor was rotten and decayed as well as the entire stringer system; at this point I was taking a deep breath(literally) then I noticed the stench...putrid decay that you would find in a swamp or septic tank....unbelievable I then looked under the hull; there wasn't one breech...there were three LARGE ones all to the starboard side; It appeared this boat had been run aground; sunk; then recovered.

The breech toward the stern was about 4ft in length and had been patched w/ ..... body filler. Decay from the top side was seeping into it turning it brown. The breech directly under the tank was about 2 ft in length and when I put my finger in it, decay began to fall from it. the outer glass would crumble just w/ the flick of my nail; the balsa core was infected and in my mind was hopeless. The nick at the waterline was a gash about 18 in in length and penetrated all the way through the balsa. I figured about 80sq ft of hull would need to be replaced as well as the transom and stringer system.

This was a long way from a solid hull and transom; sound stringers and a soft spot in the floor I explained to him that much of the hull was corrupted and due to the composite nature of the hull; it would be a much bigger job than I wanted to tackle(he was under the impression that the hull was simple fiberglass and didn't understand the balsa fiberglass composite). I decided to get my money back and at that time he dropped the bomb. He spent 2/3 of it already and would be willing to make payments I am 18 hrs away from home and have a long drive back, so to make things easy, I took the 1/3 he had and decided to keep the trailer( a decent aluminum). I wanted to drop the boat, but he didn't want it in his yard and couldn't take it back to where he had it stored. So he decides to take it to the dump I tried to convince him someone may want to take on the technical aspect of this; but not me. I couldn't convince him other wise.

So we head to the dump. It hurt both of us to watch what used to be such a magnificent boat be squashed under the cruel tracks of a dozer As I expected, the boat went squish, instead of crunch That boat was truly rotten midway to stern.

I left Houston w/ a little anger and a heavy heart. I have a trailer and no boat; a little cash, and a check I hope dosn't bounce. The trip to nashville was a whole lot longer heading back than it was going down.

Now, everyone can cry

I'm still in the market for a Enforcer, If anyone knows of a Enforcer O/B fixer that is SOLID please let me know. I'm back in the market. No worse for the wear.

 

[Acer2428]

Classic boat stories.

My first boat stranded me...TWICE on the same day.

Yet, my first trip out, the 'test run' nothing went wrong. A soon as I decided to take friends and head on a 100 mile weekend camping/boating trip, it decided to take on massive amounts of water.

Then the bilge pump went out.

Then after wiring in a new pump, the SWITCH for the pump went bad...ROFL

 

[Rob'Z]

Old Hickory, that's TERRIBLE! I'm so sorry your first experience with a Mate was a bad one. Hopefully you will find a nice Enforcer to put on your new (to you) trailer.



Rob



So sad......

 

[Old Hickory]

Rob'z

That's the boat! How'd you know? I'm not trying to point fingers; I think the guy was as saddened as I was. I just think he just needed to be more thorough and informed about what he was selling.

 

[81 enchanter]

well thats one of the worst i've heard. sorry to hear the bad luck!!

 

[schmitty]

Well,

Some people do a pretty good job embellishing a story..

The boat was sold as a project, he was looking forward to working on it with his son. I told him the boat
was a project from the guy I bought it from.


Originally, the boat was 1500.00, the trailer was 1950.00.. I made him a package deal of 3000.00
I received the money and paid off my home depot account of 2000.00

I have owned the boat 5 months, and never been in it. It was hauled to a storage property from day one. The information I offered was from the seller I bought it from. ( a big Mistake) Small fiberglass repair on floor, that was soft, a nick in the fiberglass under right side.


Almost 2 weeks later, Bringing it home Friday night from outside storage, I decided to clean it up a bit for him, old carpet laying in boat, rotten tarp, it's been non stop rain here in Houston all year, upon finding Major damage,

I called Old Hickory promptly on Saturday afternoon, and I offered him the option of getting out of the deal... I told him there was a two inch wide gash, two feet long, it was deep and almost all the way through the boat in one place and there was another place where a shotty repair had been made, and the original nick closer to the outside. I also told him there was also a crack in the transom, running across the top and then down through a bolt hole where an engine bolted on that there had been a shotty repair there too and that the floor was completely gone and it had water setting inside with the stringers completely exposed. He expressed concern about the Hull being compromised, I told him I didn't know, but doing some fiberglass repair myself, didn't think there was a problem as the Gash ran in a forward motion.. I even offered to take pictures of the damage of which he declined... He was making the trip !!!

I told him If he still wanted the deal, I would knock off a grand, which pretty much makes the boat FREE.

He took the new deal.. 1950.00 for the trailer, 50 bucks for the boat. I would hand him 1000.00 cash with the title when he got here.

I told him I didn't think the tires would make the trip and there were no lights from the get go.. he wasn't concerned.. I took it to a tire shop on Saturday anyway and had 4 used tires on it that would make his trip at my cost. plus, I also greased the bearings.

Turns out , he has family in Arkansas and evidently planned a visit with them from Tennessee, True enough, I didn't know about the Balsa system in the checkmates,

The septic smell he talks about was exactly that.. the property is saturated with all the rain and the neighbors aerobic septic system on their built up lot runs off onto mine !!! yes, I am having to deal with that issue.... (rolleyes)

There was NO squish.. No crunch.. we left before the dozer ran over it.... Did you just dream this ???

When he arrived Tues morning it was still dark, After he checked the boat, I still offered him to option out of the deal if he wasn't happy. I told him I could give him 1000.00 cash and 500./month or until I resold the trailer...he made a phone call to his financial adviser, and came back with a lower offer, 1900.00 plus I dump the boat on my property. I have no room for the boat and he is anxious to get back on the road, The quickest way to accomplish that was to take her to a nearby landfill. 140.00 more out of my pocket , so I ended up giving him 800 cash, and wrote him a check for 300.00

I offered to help him put lights on the trailer, but he said he was headed to his dads in Arkansas.. He said if he got stopped he was going to tell them that Tennessee didn't require Licence plates or lights on boat trailers.

I am saddened about loosing the Enforcer to a Landfill...


Schmitty

Hey all,

Some of you know I bought a 83 Enforcer from a member here on the forum; if this dosn't prove I'm snake bit I don't know what dose.

The weekend before I was to leave for Houston to pick up the boat; the member calls me and tells me that the boat was not in the same condition as advertised. When he picked up it from where he had it stored he noticed a crack in the transom; a gash in the hull; and a nick at the water line. He said he felt bad and would reduce the price, which seemed fair. We spoke about the additional damage and he seemed to think it was still repairable. I wanted to know if the damage to the hull was all the way thru; He wasn't sure because it was under the gas tank, but he didn't think it was. I said fine I would still come down to get the boat. He also gave me the option of backing out, but I said I would still like to see the boat.

I drove from Nashville, TN. to Houston Tx. on monday. Spent the night and then went to inspect and pick up my boat. What a tragedy.

First, when I saw the boat from the road it was as I expected. looked decent but needed alot of work. I walked around to the transom and what a mess. You could see a large crack running all the way from top almost to the drain plug. The glass was completly delaminated and separated from the wood. Someone had tried to patch it using body filler. I looked inside the boat and there was water standing in the boat; the floor was rotten and decayed as well as the entire stringer system; at this point I was taking a deep breath(literally) then I noticed the stench...putrid decay that you would find in a swamp or septic tank....unbelievable I then looked under the hull; there wasn't one breech...there were three LARGE ones all to the starboard side; It appeared this boat had been run aground; sunk; then recovered.

The breech toward the stern was about 4ft in length and had been patched w/ ..... body filler. Decay from the top side was seeping into it turning it brown. The breech directly under the tank was about 2 ft in length and when I put my finger in it, decay began to fall from it. the outer glass would crumble just w/ the flick of my nail; the balsa core was infected and in my mind was hopeless. The nick at the waterline was a gash about 18 in in length and penetrated all the way through the balsa. I figured about 80sq ft of hull would need to be replaced as well as the transom and stringer system.

This was a long way from a solid hull and transom; sound stringers and a soft spot in the floor I explained to him that much of the hull was corrupted and due to the composite nature of the hull; it would be a much bigger job than I wanted to tackle(he was under the impression that the hull was simple fiberglass and didn't understand the balsa fiberglass composite). I decided to get my money back and at that time he dropped the bomb. He spent 2/3 of it already and would be willing to make payments I am 18 hrs away from home and have a long drive back, so to make things easy, I took the 1/3 he had and decided to keep the trailer( a decent aluminum). I wanted to drop the boat, but he didn't want it in his yard and couldn't take it back to where he had it stored. So he decides to take it to the dump I tried to convince him someone may want to take on the technical aspect of this; but not me. I couldn't convince him other wise.

So we head to the dump. It hurt both of us to watch what used to be such a magnificent boat be squashed under the cruel tracks of a dozer As I expected, the boat went squish, instead of crunch That boat was truly rotten midway to stern.

I left Houston w/ a little anger and a heavy heart. I have a trailer and no boat; a little cash, and a check I hope dosn't bounce. The trip to nashville was a whole lot longer heading back than it was going down.

Now, everyone can cry

I'm still in the market for a Enforcer, If anyone knows of a Enforcer O/B fixer that is SOLID please let me know. I'm back in the market. No worse for the wear.

 

[schmitty]

And another note..

I make the drive to Ohio from Houston every couple years

Houston to Nashville is about 12 hours.. mapquest shows it as 12.5

Just another embellishment on someones part...



Click here: Driving Directions from Houston, TX to Nashville, TN

 

[Boston Predictor]

Man that stinks for both of you. I was looking forward to seeing that Enforcer restored.
I know Its none of my buisness and I dont know the circumstances of the situation, but I would have been pissed if I drove there to find a rotten boat that I already paid for, and then to boot the money was gone! Im not making any judgments, just an inert reactment to what I read.
It sounds to me, Shmitty, you should have done a more thorough investigation before listing the hull.

 

[83PREDICTOR]

Man, that's a lot of reading. What happened now?

 

[Old Hickory]

The boat was sold as a project, he was looking forward to working on it with his son.

That was never in question; you and anyone who would have read my previous posts in previous threads, new that.

I received the money and paid off my home depot account of 2000.00

nuff said

I have owned the boat 5 months, and never been in it. It was hauled to a storage property from day one. The information I offered was from the seller I bought it from. ( a big Mistake)

That storage property was draining into your yard; you'd think in the 6 months you owned the boat you might walk over a few yards and notice the condition the boat was in(lying on the ground soaking up sewage) that info was never passed on.

I called Old Hickory promptly on Saturday afternoon, and I offered him the option of getting out of the deal... I told him there was a two inch wide gash, two feet long, it was deep and almost all the way through the boat in one place and there was another place where a shotty repair had been made, and the original nick closer to the outside. I also told him there was also a crack in the transom, running across the top and then down through a bolt hole where an engine bolted on that there had been a shotty repair there too and that the floor was completely gone and it had water setting inside with the stringers completely exposed. He expressed concern about the Hull being compromised, I told him I didn't know, but doing some fiberglass repair myself, didn't think there was a problem as the Gash ran in a forward motion.. I even offered to take pictures of the damage of which he declined... He was making the trip !!!

All fairly accurate; you didn't tell me about the third breech that had a attempted repair. That nick was another gash. You didn't mention the boat had been laying in sewage; only, that the water was from the recent rains in Houston. After our conversation(I believe we spoke twice that afternoon) you felt the boat was still repairable and that you still hated to giver her up. I had concerns going in, but you gave me reasonable explainations and I still felt comfortable with the anticipated repairs I would need to do.

I told him If he still wanted the deal, I would knock off a grand, which pretty much makes the boat FREE. He took the new deal.. 1950.00 for the trailer, 50 bucks for the boat. I would hand him 1000.00 cash with the title when he got here.

True, and you still gave me the option to back out.

Turns out , he has family in Arkansas and evidently planned a visit with them from Tennessee,

What has that got to do w/ anything? I dropped my camper off at my inlaws to make room for the boat in my garage.

The septic smell he talks about was exactly that.. the property is saturated with all the rain and the neighbors aerobic septic system on their built up lot runs off onto mine !!! yes, I am having to deal with that issue....

That smell was coming from the inside of the boat; you exposed yourself on this one.

There was NO squish.. No crunch.. we left before the dozer ran over it.... Did you just dream this ???

I did see him running over it in my rear view...you were too upset to look. Remember, I was driving. I did make up the squish part, heh heh. A little ceative license.....To quote a famous modern day philosopher " Ah don't care who ya are! That's funny! ....Git er dunn!"

I told him I could give him 1000.00 cash and 500./month or until I resold the trailer...he made a phone call to his financial adviser, and came back with a lower offer, 1900.00

The financial adviser....was my wife.....it was a joke. I was trying to make lemonade. You making payments to me wasn't going to work; as I told you, I didn't feel comfortable w/ that, and I didn't want to put you or myself in that position. Driving off w/ the trailer; whether I knew it before or after I arrived in Houston; was my only option. You made sure of it after you told me you had spent 2k of the $3000; only, after I had arrived and inspected the boat.

The quickest way to accomplish that was to take her to a nearby landfill. 140.00 more out of my pocket , so I ended up giving him 800 cash, and wrote him a check for 300.00

I tried to talk you out of it. And.... no, it didn't come out of your pocket; you used $200 of my $1000 to pay the charge; that's why you wrote a check for $300 instead of $100. Untill the check clears...it's a loan.

I offered to help him put lights on the trailer, but he said he was headed to his dads in Arkansas.. He said if he got stopped he was going to tell them that Tennessee didn't require Licence plates or lights on boat trailers.

I was going to my father-in-laws; same place I left my camper. I didn't need your help w/ the lights and I thanked you for your offer. I already had a portable hazard light and a set of towing lights. Tennesse dosen't require TAGS on a trailer. They do require...lights, hence the hazard and towing lights.

I am saddened about loosing the Enforcer to a Landfill...

Mark, I am too. I wasn't going to include your name in this, but you stepped into it. No one here has probably met you; I have. I think you are a very pleasant man who articulates himself well. After all this; I still like you, minus a few of the character flaws

I think you made some serious mistakes in judgement; as did I. I should have never sent you all that money, it was too great a temptation for you. I think you should have been more diligent in your inspection of the boat and been both forthright in your initial advertisement; and in your second representation to me. If that had been true, neither of us would have experienced this.

One of the things I like about sites such as this, is that it gives people who have a common interest and passion to share ideas, opinions and advice. What makes all this work is that each of us is obligated to have integrity and be honest and truthful with each other. This creates TRUST. Without it this site would not survive.

I believe you are a good person, who has a conscience; otherwise, you wouldn't have attempted to do some of the things for me that you did. I also believe you put yourself into a hole that became difficult for you to crawl out of; desperation can make many a good man dishonest. I wish you the best; don't drain your checking account

Rod teague

 

[Acer2428]

Good lessons learned for all:

- Never pay before you inspect
- Never spend before buyer inspects

You know what they say. Never sell a vehicle to a friend.

 

[schmitty]

Originally Posted by schmitty
The boat was sold as a project, he was looking forward to working on it with his son.


That was never in question; you and anyone who would have read my previous posts in previous threads, new that.


Quote:
I received the money and paid off my home depot account of 2000.00

nuff said

The deal was made, the money was mine when received. I paid off a high interest account... I didn't know the damage
existed till before I called you over a week later when I brought the boat in . I offered you your money back, but you couldn't hear what I was saying.. you were fixated on seeing the Boat yourself


Quote:
I have owned the boat 5 months, and never been in it. It was hauled to a storage property from day one. The information I offered was from the seller I bought it from. ( a big Mistake)

That storage property was draining into your yard; you'd think in the 6 months you owned the boat you might walk over a few yards and notice the condition the boat was in(lying on the ground soaking up sewage) that info was never passed on.

The storage property was not next to me.. it was a block away . The boat was purchased and sitting on the very trailer you purchased. The picture I sent you was the storage yard.. you can clearly see the boat sitting on the trailer. I don't know where you are getting this idea it was sitting on it's belly in sewage.. You have a vivid imagination.. the area you walked around is my property where the ditch was.. it's all one lot all the way to the corner where I have a another junk boat setting on it's belly. Is this where your getting your wild ideas from?

Quote:
I called Old Hickory promptly on Saturday afternoon, and I offered him the option of getting out of the deal... I told him there was a two inch wide gash, two feet long, it was deep and almost all the way through the boat in one place and there was another place where a shotty repair had been made, and the original nick closer to the outside. I also told him there was also a crack in the transom, running across the top and then down through a bolt hole where an engine bolted on that there had been a shotty repair there too and that the floor was completely gone and it had water setting inside with the stringers completely exposed. He expressed concern about the Hull being compromised, I told him I didn't know, but doing some fiberglass repair myself, didn't think there was a problem as the Gash ran in a forward motion.. I even offered to take pictures of the damage of which he declined... He was making the trip !!!

All fairly accurate; you didn't tell me about the third breech that had a attempted repair. That nick was another gash. You didn't mention the boat had been laying in sewage; only, that the water was from the recent rains in Houston. After our conversation(I believe we spoke twice that afternoon) you felt the boat was still repairable and that you still hated to giver her up. I had concerns going in, but you gave me reasonable explainations and I still felt comfortable with the anticipated repairs I would need to do.

I did tell you about the third breech that had been repaired.. You were at a flag football game talking to me with your son playing.. and at one time even left the phone to cheer for him... You can split hairs all day about what a nick is.. The boat NEVER laid in sewage.. I have witnesses, including the property owner who I paid storage to. I feel that the Boat was very restorable and you just couldn't handle it.. You are welcome to call the guy I purchased it from.. I don't think he even knew the extent of the interiors floor...

Quote:
I told him If he still wanted the deal, I would knock off a grand, which pretty much makes the boat FREE. He took the new deal.. 1950.00 for the trailer, 50 bucks for the boat. I would hand him 1000.00 cash with the title when he got here.

True, and you still gave me the option to back out.

I gave you the option to back out on the phone... I took the day off work Tues, to help you get the trailer loaded and lights wired up etc.. you said you were bringing a light kit from wall mart. I extended you still another option at that time to back out after you arrived as it was more than you were capable of
Quote:
Turns out , he has family in Arkansas and evidently planned a visit with them from Tennessee,

What has that got to do w/ anything? I dropped my camper off at my inlaws to make room for the boat in my garage.

What is has to do with is... Little Rock Arkansas is halfway to Houston .. you had obviously already planned to visit your family and didn't want to cancel those plans by backing out of the deal with me on the phone...

Quote:
The septic smell he talks about was exactly that.. the property is saturated with all the rain and the neighbors aerobic septic system on their built up lot runs off onto mine !!! yes, I am having to deal with that issue....

That smell was coming from the inside of the boat; you exposed yourself on this one.

The only smell coming from inside the boat were old gas fumes as the rubber hose to the aluminum tank was missing.
I should have taken pictures of the damage so I could show the members..

Quote:
There was NO squish.. No crunch.. we left before the dozer ran over it.... Did you just dream this ???

I did see him running over it in my rear view...you were too upset to look. Remember, I was driving. I did make up the squish part, heh heh. A little ceative license.....To quote a famous modern day philosopher " Ah don't care who ya are! That's funny! ....Git er dunn!"

I too looked in the mirror.. we were driving around a corner out of sight before the dozer even got close.. your lies keep leading into others..

 

[schmitty]

Quote:
I told him I could give him 1000.00 cash and 500./month or until I resold the trailer...he made a phone call to his financial adviser, and came back with a lower offer, 1900.00

The financial adviser....was my wife.....it was a joke. I was trying to make lemonade. You making payments to me wasn't going to work; as I told you, I didn't feel comfortable w/ that, and I didn't want to put you or myself in that position. Driving off w/ the trailer; whether I knew it before or after I arrived in Houston; was my only option. You made sure of it after you told me you had spent 2k of the $3000; only, after I had arrived and inspected the boat.

Yes, I knew who your adviser was.. I was going to tell you about the payments on the phone, but you took the deal for a 1000.00 less !!!

Quote:
The quickest way to accomplish that was to take her to a nearby landfill. 140.00 more out of my pocket , so I ended up giving him 800 cash, and wrote him a check for 300.00

I tried to talk you out of it. And.... no, it didn't come out of your pocket; you used $200 of my $1000 to pay the charge; that's why you wrote a check for $300 instead of $100. Untill the check clears...it's a loan.

You could have cashed the check on the way out... It wasn't a loan...

Quote:
I offered to help him put lights on the trailer, but he said he was headed to his dads in Arkansas.. He said if he got stopped he was going to tell them that Tennessee didn't require Licence plates or lights on boat trailers.

I was going to my father-in-laws; same place I left my camper. I didn't need your help w/ the lights and I thanked you for your offer. I already had a portable hazard light and a set of towing lights. Tennesse dosen't require TAGS on a trailer. They do require...lights, hence the hazard and towing lights.

Jeez... ANOTHER LIE ? I called the Tennessee Department of Motor vehicles.. They stated the state law is, any trailer no matter what size leaving the state must be licensed, and any boat trailer over 20 feet in length MUST BE LICENSED...

Unless you had clamps, towing lights need metal to stick too... fiberglass and aluminum are not magnetic last time I checked.., I was running on your statement you were bringing a light kit

Quote:
I am saddened about loosing the Enforcer to a Landfill...

Mark, I am too. I wasn't going to include your name in this, but you stepped into it. No one here has probably met you; I have. I think you are a very pleasant man who articulates himself well. After all this; I still like you, minus a few of the character flaws

Jeez.. what a great compliment... I think??? Your the only one that keeps stepping into it Rod, with your lies..

I think you made some serious mistakes in judgement; as did I. I should have never sent you all that money, it was too great a temptation for you. I think you should have been more diligent in your inspection of the boat and been both forthright in your initial advertisement; and in your second representation to me. If that had been true, neither of us would have experienced this.

Temptation? the money was mine.... it wasn't till a week later that I found the problems... I offered you back your money
before your left. you declined. I should have made you take the boat.. I told you everything I could see wrong with the boat.. there was no misrepresentation the second time.. what would I have to gain by that ??? I even offered to send pictures of the damage which you declined !!

One of the things I like about sites such as this, is that it gives people who have a common interest and passion to share ideas, opinions and advice. What makes all this work is that each of us is obligated to have integrity and be honest and truthful with each other. This creates TRUST. Without it this site would not survive.

I am not going to resort to name calling or attack your character... You have lied to the members of this Forum repeatedly.. I find it amazing that you continue.. it's my word against yours though.. I am equally amazed this coming from a fellow conservative. I have many witness's to prove the boat was kept trailered always..

I believe you are a good person, who has a conscience; otherwise, you wouldn't have attempted to do some of the things for me that you did. I also believe you put yourself into a hole that became difficult for you to crawl out of; desperation can make many a good man dishonest. I wish you the best; don't drain your checking account

My bad... !! I made a mistake once.. and offered to correct it.. you were consumed with making the trip.. you were obsessed that surely the damages couldn't be as bad as I stated.. I told you the gash appeared to be all the way through the boat.. you even asked if I could see daylight.. I said no, but that was probably because it was under the gas tank..

In Ending, I am sorry the deal turned out badly as far as the boat was concerned.. The real victim here is the Enforcer.... I feel like I murdered someone !! I feel I had done everything possible to try to correct this situation.. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink...

Rod, your a likeable Guy.. all the way from your Crocodile Dundee hat to your snoop dog sunglasses. and Your Rambo knife you pulled out to slowly cut the end of your imported cigar was a nice touch.. I could only think this must have been your way of letting me know you were armed in case I was taking you to the landfill of no return.. I suppose putting myself in your shoes, I may have thought the same..one can't be too care full these days

Take Care

 

[Chris]

Both parties have made their points, so I'm closing this out...