When does a fast boat....

[Chris]

When does a fast boat, become a boat that is simply too fast?

Serious question here for you guys/gals.

I know there are many, who like to work on getting their boat to run as fast as possible, it can become a never ending quest to get another MPH or two, but at what point does it stop? You guys all know the deal here, we work on setups, put bigger motors on, all in the name of getting more top end.

But what I wonder is this, are things starting to go too far? I know us Checkie owners don't run as fast as some of the boats out there. Mostly as our hulls are a bit bigger and a bit heavier, but the other side of the coin is that they are also a bit safer and a bit more predictable too. But there are still many of us who are still running quite fast. Fast then we allowed to run the local expressway as an example. And speed is relative, so some of the speeds that we now run in our Checks, twenty or thirty years ago would almost be unobtainable and unthinkable for most pleasure boats of that period.

I ask this question, as this year there were a number of threads on Scream & Fly as well as other boating communities about members and boaters who were either killed or seriously hurt running at high speeds.

Each year that passes here on the forums, there are many more of us who are running in 70 MPH plus range, more in the 80's and even a few are getting into the 90's.

So I pose the question, is our quest for top end speed, starting to go too far? Is it reasonable to be running around in STV's and other "pleasure boats" that are capable of running 100 plus MPH as a weekend pastime? Or are things starting to go too far?

-Chris

 

[Big Red]

Its like anything else. Why does a new car on a car lot run 140 and can take a 35 mile an hour curve at 90 when the speed limit is 55. Why do they keep making the nascar tracks bigger yet they make them run a restricter plate. Speed will always be their and death will always be waiting. Its a risk and the need for a rush as your a$$ cheeks squeeze together on a near miss. Does a car need to run down the 1/4 mile in 3 seconds. Yes it does who wants to see a slow car.

Boats are just another thing to make run fast and is just as dangerous as anything else.

The last 3 boat deaths I have seen from speed related were cat hulls

 

[Big Red]

Have a look and some lawn mower racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLgcqSKCfHs&feature=related

I have a neighbor the races one of thease things

 

[illMATTic]

I don't think its going too far. there are just more people in the sport now vs previous years. I would be willing to bet the accident rate in boating is still less than with automobiles.

 

[ezstriper]

Chris, you bring up a good point, I think a lot to do with that is the age of the guys doing it...some of the younger ones are willing to let hang out further than some of us older guys...and thats not to say there are not some that break that that. I know a while back when I got my blower motor package done and did some intial testing, and that mt 2 sons would be driving the boat at time, i knew it was to much without ext steering, and pulled the engine in favor of a milder 509. I know some would say why ?? but I knew my boys and knowing that have the No Fear feeling something may happen and turn out bad..now they are used to speed as they both have their NHRA comp licenses and share driving my top sportsman camaro...but the race car is safer. Also in the last couple of years having someone here die in a STV(blow over) and another do the same in a twin engine skater, only to not sink but threw him out and here into the dash and had to be medivaced out, but both were ok....the boats are getting faster we just need to hope that the drivers are up to the task....sorry for the long reply...Rob

 

[Water Bug]

Going Fast,,,Maybe to Fast

Chris I'm new to this forum the way I ended up here was it was time to get out of the race boats!! After a blow over in a Hydrostream and a hook in a Allison that broke some ribs and an arm I can tell you when you get to the limits of any hull design and you keep pushing for that next MPH or one more tenth off of your time it's not if there will be a wreck it is just when and how bad it is going to be. I quit boating for a few years then I found a old Checkmate Spectra that being rebuilt now. 70 MPH will be fine and safe. The ones of you that are running on the edge wear good safety equipment and never run all out without another boat in the water close by and watching over you. Be safe getting hurt bad takes all the fun out of boating !! OK I'LL GET OFF MY SOAP BOX NOW Terry

 

[wizard8575]

is a boat to fast when only the normal owner is the one that can handle driving it without it being dangerous? I believe stuff can be safe as long as you know the boat or vehicle you are driving. Not everyone can hop into a 7 sec drag car and drive it without having their underwear get filled. Some people are born to go fast. But then again **** does happen.

 

[Mr. Buss]

I can tell you when you get to the limits of any hull design and you keep pushing for that next MPH or one more tenth off of your time it's not if there will be a wreck it is just when and how bad it is going to be.

that was well put, i dont know fast a predictor will really go but i do know when you creep on the 80 mph mark, it has the "right on edge of disaster" feeling, but thats the stuff i live for !!!

i had a slick come apart at the strip at about the 125 mark.. that was not fun...and it ruined my car.

then, i thought burnin up the corners on a crotch rocket was the coolest this ever, until i kissed the asphalt at 80...and luckily for me i was out of the hospital in 4 hours, walking on my own, just rashed and bruised...then bought a new one 2 weeks later, which was very dumb, because as WATER BUG said "getting hurt takes all the fun out of if" so when i do ride it, it really aint fun anymore...

wow.. sorry guys.. i really went off topic with this one.......... anyway i would like to see 85 but i aint gonna kill myself tryin'!! after reading some of the stuff over on S&F, it really makes you think about how dangerous some of these boats are, all it takes is a snapped off skeg, wave, gust of wind and then your in deep poo-poo..... your life really is in the balance....

buss

 

[Chris]

Lots of good comments and input guys.

The problem as I see it, is that water is unpredictable. Driving your boat at 80 is not like driving your car on a highway at 80.

There are certain things you can assume about a road, especially one you're familiar with. As an example, you don't typically drive down the road and all of a sudden encounter a massive roller which sends your car air-bourne. Are there certain risks even on a highway? Yes of course.

But the fact is there is a more unpredictable nature with boats and water. As one additional example, it's not like you hit some wind and your car blows over.

I don't know if you guys remember, but a few years ago we had a member who was a fairly regular participant and suddenly he disappeared. A few months later, he returned and what had happened to him, was that he was badly injured when a prospective buyer (who was thinking about buying his boat), lost control of it and it crashed and was destroyed. Basically what happened was the guy lost control when the boat began to chine-walk and they ended up barrel rolling the boat.

Now as far as Checkmates go, as I mentioned earlier, their sheer weight reduces some of the common dangers like blowing over. But you can still hit a roller and go air-borne, or you can "stuff it" as well.

And as the top speeds increase, the time you have to react to something unforeseen, becomes less and less. So as speeds go up, risk goes up.

And compounding the risk, is that water and water conditions are unpredictable.

So what I'm wondering is, is running at the edge in a pleasure boat, really worth the thrill or the bragging rights?

Or are things starting to go too far when people are pushing things to the point, when a trip to the lake is now a very high risk activity?

-Chris

 

[merc245]

Very pointyent Question,I just walked in the door from an a 4 day hospital stay. I was trying to go as fast as my freinds on thier sleds Knowing I had not the experaince to hang.Put I put myself in that situtation thru peer pressure and stupid life choices.
Everyone has thier point and every ones point changes over the yrs.Over the yrs my point( in the boat)went from the devil may care to lets just keep the equiment together to, hey I got some speed in the bank if needed.
Everyone has differant thresholds,Its just basic HUMANE NATURE.I just hope everyone is as lucky as I've have been finding and passing mine.
As I was being wheeled down to the car today.My nurse said they don't get many sledding injuries anymore.They usally die instanly on on the trails


The story goes for ever, The trill last a life time, And the chicks digs the scars

 

[Big Red]

I disagree with you Chris on boats are different in danger. Speed is speed regaurdless of what you are driving. For instance I will take my Chevelle down the road by my house for a hot lap. Going threw the gears in a tremec 5spd hitting 3rd gear about 6500 rpms with the tires on the verge of breaking loose if I run over a small stone. Then again what if a deer runs out or a clown comes bailing out of a driveway with out looking on a uni-cycle. But when you think about it if I was not running 110 I might live threw the crash. This is not something I do all the time but I have a good strech by my house I feel that is safe unless a wheel falls off.

Like merc said he was hauling A$$ on a sled when he wiped out. Sleds are just as bad my good friend has a sled that runs 120. Tell me thats not dangerous around trees.

I agree 100% on water always throwing a different game out their. But it is the speed that did it.

Their is not one motorized thing built that somebody is not pushing it past its means in speed.

One good thing about speed in boats is 99% of the time its only the people that are in the boat that get hurt its not some inocent person driving the other way.

 

[jallen355]

Glad you are still alive to tell that story, Merc. Hope your wounds heal quickly!

As far as myself, at 43 years old now, I have begun to realize my mortality. I grew up racing moto-x and then it was dirt track racing until my kids came along. I've been riding bikes for over 34 years now. In short, I'm one of the adrenaline junkies and speed does it for me. Well, I went over backwards on a Ducati Monster a couple of years back and I'd have to agree with Waterbug. It did take some of the fun out of riding. On the upside, I just don't ride hard like I used to anymore and I'm sure that's not such a bad thing. As for boats, I've been 114 mph with a buddy in his Mirage Jaguar and drove the same boat myself @98 mph. Both are personnal bests. My Exciter is quite "exciting" at 65 mph, but I want that "70 mph". I tried for it Friday evening before the sun went down. I had gone fishing down south with some friends. We all stay at one of my friends camp right on a bayou. He has his own backdown right there. I made a couple of passes right in front of the camp. Kind of showing off, I guess. Anyway, I got into a pretty good chine walk and tried to drive through it. Got a little harry and I got nervous and chopped the throttle. I thought she was going to come around on me. Scared the bejesus out of myself. I put the boat back on the trailer and haven't touhed it since. Now, I'm not scared of it, but I have just gotten to the age that I know when to say when. At least I like to think so.

 

[ezstriper]

like drinking....knowing when to say when.....yes there all all kinds of ways for us to kill ourselves....some just easier...and sometimes without really trying

 

[Chris]

Merc - I'm glad to hear you're alright! I hope you're feeling back to normal soon.

I guess the question here really relates to risk and the amount of risk, that is reasonable to take, in the name of a weekend pastime.

Yes, I realize there is some risk in almost everything we do. Yes, there is risk in driving your car down the road, yes, there is risk in driving your tin boat with a 9.9 down the lake, yes, there is risk in walking down the street, yes, I understand there is risk running your snow sled. I understand all that. But within each of these things there is different degrees of risk.

So the more fundamental question here is, as we push our boats further and further to the edge, does the risk start to become too high?

On a personal note, I can tell you that my little Pulse running 60ish can be a real handful to drive. And I've been involved in boating all my life. But even at 60, it's hard to read the water conditions very far in advance.

Between the wind, the waves, the sun and also just the task of concentrating on driving, to me at least it's not something someone inexperienced should try. And even with my experience, there are numerious times where I've been running and all of a sudden found myself with some mini-rollers dead ahead of me with nowhere to go, so I've just had just had to hold on and hope for the best.

So I can only imagine doing that at 90, even if in a bigger boat where the results of running up on a roller can be much more dramatic. And what about guys running in STV's at 110, 120, 130 or even higher?

In my mind, the risk levels begin to get too high.

-Chris

 

[Keytime]

I feel that what's more important than not driving beyond the boat's capabilities is not driving beyond the driver's capabilities. Regardless of what type of machine it is, more drivers need to drive within their personal limits. A professional driver going for top-speed in my boat has the higher potential for safety than I do. I think that applies to boats, cars, bikes, etc. Granted, there is inherent risk, but the higher your skill level, the safer you can potentially be if you drive smart.
That is why I'm asking lots of questions now and considering a driving school to increase my skill level and make the ride safer for me and my passengers.
Further, I feel that being more skilled not only gives you the knowledge to drive a boat better, safer, and faster, but it will also enable you to make smarter decisions that may keep you from going for speed when you shouldn't.
I've raced bikes offroad for 10 years now and have slowly progressed to where I am now, which is faster than I've ever been. It's because I didn't need to be the fastest right away. I exercised patience and worked my way up w/o breaking my neck. IMO, more boaters should use similar patience.
Don't even get me started on streetbikes! lol

 

[JUPITER PULSARE]

Wow, Chris..that's a loaded question! What one guy feels as too fast may just be the starting point for another guy! You hit the nail on the head when you stated "things happen quickly on the water". Water is forever changing; waves, boat wakes, chop, etc. can catch any boat by surprise. I tend to believe that the Checkmates are alot safer than the paper thin River Rockets and STV's running around. The construction/balsa coring alone is a life saver! I think the biggest factor would be driver experience and knowing when to back off...and that doesn't always work....many experienced boaters were killed this past season. For me, from a personal standpoint, My current speed limit is restricted to a "pucker" factor. I know at 75 MPH, my 21' Pulsare is at about it's safety limit due to weight and length. Can the boat go faster??; absolutely. Can I drive it faster? With more power yes, but I would only go faster by myself and not risk hurting anyone else. I've driven as fast as 127 MPH in a 46' Fountain raceboat but there are huge safety advantages that come with size and weight.

 

[Mr. Buss]

I've driven as fast as 127 MPH in a 46' Fountain raceboat

SWEET !!

 

[Mr. Buss]

Don't even get me started on streetbikes! lol

thats a pretty broad statement there!!

are you refering to the drunk a$$ harleys guys, drivin from bar to bar??
or the sportbike guys doin 160 on the freeway?
or maybe even the 60 year retired guy on a goldwing just enjoyin his golden years???

thats like saying "boaters are dumb" because of the few dipchits out there..

 

[JUPITER PULSARE]

SWEET !!

And that was a canopied race boat.....it's alot different than an open cockpit boat and it makes you feel very safe, however, that feeling of safety is deceiving....there were quite a few fatalities in canopied race boats this past year....but, there is no comparison between running 100 MPH in a 21' boat and 100 MPH in a 46' boat. The length spans the waves and the weight keeps you down...you are definitly safer in a bigger, longer, heavier boat!!

 

[Mr. Buss]

And that was a canopied race boat.....it's alot different than an open cockpit boat and it makes you feel very safe, however, that feeling of safety is deceiving....there were quite a few fatalities in canopied race boats this past year....but, there is no comparison between running 100 MPH in a 21' boat and 100 MPH in a 46' boat. The length spans the waves and the weight keeps you down...you are definitly safer in a bigger, longer, heavier boat!!

ill probably never get a chance to ride in a boat like that, but i think it would be one of the coolest experiences..............EVER!!!!