Checkmate Vs. Baja question

[winter]

Here's the deal. A friend invited my family to a big lake in Pa this july where apparently Baja is the boat of choice. There's even a Baja dealer on the lake. At dinner tonight, the one family who's going that doesn't have a boat asked about the difference between the Baja's and my checkmate. The guy who invited us replied that baja is one step above checkmate. I was at a loss to argue the point, other than saying Baja had a name assoc. with speed boats that most others don't and sort of attributed a Baja buyer to a Corvette buyer from the 80's (chest hair showing with a fat gold necklace and a dumb grin etc). But i had no facts. Maybe a dumb question, but what arguements can i use next time around that hold weight? any factual things? I'm bound to run into a few Baja nuts there and if i can't beat 'em with speed, i'd like to at least have something for a good argument!

 

[dfarina]

Oh man, here we go again. Its a long story and I have only been alive for about half of the history so I don't know a whole lot. You can probably pretty easily do a search in nearly any forum and find lots of info. Basically the rivalry all starts because the boats are built in the same small city in north central Ohio. I do believe that Baja got its start by purchasing and using old Checkmate molds but I know there is more to it than that. Both started out as smaller, handbuilt models and this competition improved both manufacturers until the early 1990's. It was about that time when Baja got bought by the mother of all boat companies, Brunswick, which basically owns nearly everything associated with boating. (The were actually sued before under anti-trust laws for creating a monopoly but thats a whole other story). I believe its about that time when Baja became more concerned with production numbers and started producing boats as fast as they could moving away from hand-building and started using chopper guns and such. Anyways, present day Baja is known for producing the bigger I/O offshore boats while Checkmate has stayed true to its roots in producing smaller outboard models as well as I/O's under 30'. The latest fuel on the fire is that Doug Smith, one of the original founders of Baja has bought control of Checkmate within the last year. Well thats about all I know and its only a small fraction. I'm sure at lot of people have a lot more information and they will be along shortly. Its basically brand loyalty, the whole Chevy vs. Ford vs. Mopar only on water. That was a lot of typing!

 

[cooperider]

It really doesn't matter what you tell them, they are always going to believe what they want.

Just wave to them as you pass them in your Checkmate.

 

[winter]

hehehe, thanks guys. I didn't really want to spend a whole lot of time researching, it really is no big deal. It's one of those things that i'd like to have some bits of info to toss at someone who yuk's up their Baja as the worlds best boat. Not sure my Persuader will beat allot of Baja's just yet, but maybe with the bigger motor i have planned for next year

 

[dfarina]

eh, next time they start talking about their Baja's send them over to teambajamarine.com and check out the COMPLAINT department. Then tell them to come here and FIND the complaint department

 

[ezstriper]

To sum that question in real ez terms, Baja(and I have owned one) is the bayliner of performance boats..mass produced, good bling for the $$ but hull designs not good for performance, although they are now getting better, or in car termonaligy...the hyndai !!

 

[winter]

To sum that question in real ez terms, Baja(and I have owned one) is the bayliner of performance boats..mass produced, good bling for the $$ but hull designs not good for performance, although they are now getting better, or in car termonaligy...the hyndai !!

There we go! That's the sort of answer i need! But is it correct that BAJA's are no longer handmade and checkmates are?

 

[Chris E]

yeah - not to be overly hard on bajas - we all no they blow, they are mass produced, use tape, not gel, and the build quaility is inferior. they used to use a lot of plexy, strap hinges, and had wicked stress cracks. anything to save a few bucks. that's the problem when your responsibilites are to the shareholders.

how many old bajas do you see compared to checkis - there is your argument there - your boat will still be around in 20 years - his won't - period - end of discussion.

 

[BullittBen]

If you like cheesy graphics and chopper guns, go Baja.

Baja's were cool back in the day, like dfarina was saying. But mass production has gotten the best of them.

There is really nothing to compare a Checkmate to, because it's rare to get a hand built, low production item designed and built by someone who KNOWS the business, for less than or around the same price as mass produced junk. It doesn't matter if you are talking cars, motorcycles, art, electronics or whatever, that just doesn't happen. Personal service like at Checkmate is nearly extinct. Checkmate has kept their overhead low by staying in the same building for 30+ years, etc. That keeps them from having to cut every penny they can on parts, materials, etc to stay competitively priced.

That's the way I see it, but I've never been to the factory or anything else. I have talked to Mike on the phone one time and he was very helpful and friendly considering I was asking about a 30 year old boat.

 

[Wide Open]

I think it's also important to point out to the Baja owner, that he needs to take a look at the used boat market. Baja's are EVERYWHERE. And resale? Don't even go there! You can look at all the Baja's listed and think "well, they're all holding their value pretty well". But find out what they're actually "selling" for. The market has been ruined so bad by the manufacturer saturating the market with dealers, that those dealers are in CONSTANT competition with the next one trying to land the same guy. Because of that, the dealers end up giving the boat away just so the other dealer doesn't get the sale. When new boats sell cheap, used value goes in the crapper too! Something nobody seems to think about when they're buying a new boat. Just my 2 cents. But if you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

J

 

[supergenius74]

I think that if anyone (like these baja boys) talk bad about checkmate then it's because they just don't know anything about checkmate, which is usually the case. I live in northeastern indiana and there are hardly any checkmates here, yet the factory is only 3 hrs away. I think that if someone has owned both and can honestly explain why their baja is so much better then lets hear it, othewise they are just full of BS and dumb. Most of the baja owners I know of have more money than brains, they don't know much about bajas or any boat for that matter even though they just spent 50K on a new one.

 

[81 enchanter]

glad i came across this article so i've got some more info when i tell ppl that their baja's and liberator's suck! heehe.

 

[ross]

i love it guys!!!!! my aunt and uncle have a "pretty" newer baha. my ol' checkie runs 60-62 weather pending and he wants to race me in the spring.... i will have you know he's running in the upper 50's!! also i have yet to install my 12 inch jack plate and take the foam out of the play pen- i guess we will shut one of the baha owners up, up here in northern michigan!! one for the good guys!!!!!thumb:

 

[Big Red]

It really doesn't matter what you tell them, they are always going to believe what they want.

Just wave to them as you pass them in your Checkmate.

I like coops response and I agree on the resale sucks on a baja. To me what I see is the quality is not to good, I see alot of stress cracks and trim falling off. And the number 1 thing why I can,t stand a baja is I can see 20 of the same model every time I go to the lake.

 

[smallblockford]

first fact the first baja was a checkmate mold was sold for a percent to baja they were not aloud to use metal flake and checkmate got a percent of the sellings

second baja is not the same they are owned by brunswick same people who make bayliner maximum, sea ray, and even mercury.

bajas ex owner has purchased checkmate, the kip and his brother are still there

checkmate is still hand made and there are much less of them being made

if you compare bajas to checks the baja is almost always a lot heavier

 

[bigsbetter]

I'm a little too buzzed and have not read totally all the posts, but in my observations....Baja may have a fast boat... some are faster than Checkmates and handle better... built by hand or not..I don't know. but the truth is... Baja just DOES NOT HAVE SOUL!!!... LIKE CHECKMATE!!!. Checkmate seems to have 'SOUL'...even before I owned a Checkmate. I never wanted a Baja, even if it were faster...It never had the Soul or whatever you want to call it, but I've now got it, and alot of Baja owners do not... they've just got a plain fast boat...
I'm not saying Baja's are faster.....but they are comparably fast...........but it's just like the TV commercial during the Superbowl, Hyundai had a 375HP Genisis.....do you think that is going to compare to the high end Europen cars???....maybe in speed , but not in quality and heart.

 

[WILDMAN]

People will always buy what they see in thier area. Whatever dealer sells boats around thier lake, that's what sells. Also, there is absolutely, NO BAJA, of whatever size, that will run with a Checkmate of the same size, with the same power! And this IS a fact!

 

[ezstriper]

Thats the truth for sure !!! last few years they have held a radar run where we boat, the fastest v-bottoms were checkmates and fountains...and we all know what they cost...year before last there was a older 251 that ran 114..unreal, and there where a few Baja's with exotic engine packages that struggled to break 80 !!! radar kinda puts it all in prospective !!!!!!!

 

[Scott_Loveless]

As put to me when I was buying my 1st Playmate - Baja: " All Lipstick - No Mucle " ...

 

[Craig]

Take a Baja and a Checkmate of comparable length and the Baja is always heavier, so obviously slower with equal power. I have read that Baja does quite a bit with wind tunnel testing, but I look at that as wasted effort, since all they really need to do is go back to hand laid methods which would greatly reduce the weight of their hulls.....But I doubt they will, they are in the business of making lots of boats as fast as they possibly can, and that's what has separated the two manufacturers for a lot of years.

I've also read that they are using carbon fiber reinforcing to strengthen them up a bit, again seems like wasted effort, if they would just eliminate the chopper guns to begin with? But is seems to equate to some good marketing, I've heard many Baja guys brag about there wind tunnel tested, carbon reinforced, highly technologically advanced hulls. The old Baja vs Checkmate arguement is getting more ridiculous then ever. Fun stuff, though.

I'm a huge Checkmate fan, but all in all Bajas are not that bad of boat, honestly. But there is a big difference from Chekmate and I will agrue that til I'm blue in the face. Bajas currently are probably built as good or better then some of the other mass produced boats out there....Larson, Crown Line, Sea Ray, and not to say those are bad boats either. I ownend a 1994 Baja Bandit back in 1999, bought it for something to drive while I had a 2000 2100 Pulsare on order. I threw a lot of people for a loop that summer. Anyway, it was a good solid boat, although not same par as Checkmate. Not even close.

-Craig